Topic: H120 recording level

[mauri]

Hi guys, I'm looking for a recording device for live music, and iRiver H120 is one of the posibilities I'm considering after browsing this site. I have a question that I couldn't find the answer for in this board, but may be it's because it's so obvious.

I'm interested in using the H120 with an external mic, sometimes through line-in, and other times through mic-in. When using line-in, I think I will not use a preamp, just a battery box (as I'll be recording loud sounds in this case). The H series instruction manual reads on page 34: "NOTE: Volume level can not be controlled on the H120 while recording from an external device."

Does this mean I can not change the recording level while recording? Does Rockbox fix that?

Thank you very much, and I'm very sorry if this has already been answered, I searched but couldn't find it.

Best regards,
Mauri

[Chuck]

That must refer to using the optical input.
I can change gain on my RockBoxed iHP-120 when going line.

[stantheman1976]

Rockbox fixes that.  Stock firmware on the 120 sucks.  You cannot change levels on the fly.  It doesn't have mic in, only line in.  Using a battery box and gain on the recorder will work fine.

[Arni99]

read this 1st:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,73139.0.html

[mauri]

When stantheman1976 says "You cannot change levels on the fly", he is refering to his previous sentence, "stock firmware sucks", but when he says "It doesn't have mic in, only line in" he refers to the unit itself, no matter what firmware it runs?

In the manual it says:

- To record voice with internal microphone : INT.MIC
- To record voice with the external microphone: EXT.MIC
- To record from an external audio device with an Optical Out: OPTICAL.
- To record from an external audio device with a standard Line Out or Headphone jack: LINE-IN

I had asumed that with the second option I could connect my mic and the signal would go through an internal preamplifier. Doesn't it work like that?
In the iRivers FAQ topic, in section [081] Recorder Settings / 4) Source, it does not present the choice of external mic... I'm confused.

[Arni99]

When stantheman1976 says "You cannot change levels on the fly", he is refering to his previous sentence, "stock firmware sucks", but when he says "It doesn't have mic in, only line in" he refers to the unit itself, no matter what firmware it runs?

In the manual it says:

- To record voice with internal microphone : INT.MIC
- To record voice with the external microphone: EXT.MIC
- To record from an external audio device with an Optical Out: OPTICAL.
- To record from an external audio device with a standard Line Out or Headphone jack: LINE-IN

I had asumed that with the second option I could connect my mic and the signal would go through an internal preamplifier. Doesn't it work like that?
In the iRivers FAQ topic, in section [081] Recorder Settings / 4) Source, it does not present the choice of external mic... I'm confused.

i assume you use rockbox firmware latest build right now and NOT the iriver standardfirmware
if so, you can find the following options by navigating:
settings/recording settings/source:
-internal mic
-line in =>choose this one by selecting it with the navi-button and pressing the navi-button
-digital
-FM radio

the H120 line-in jack provides 3V to the mics BUT you can use a 9V battery box aswell to provide proper mic-powering .

[mauri]

Arni99, I am not using any firmware, I am trying to find out about the H120 to see if it does what I need (as I said in the first post).
It's not a matter of plug-in power, but amplification.
So, this unit does not have a MIC-IN, that is, a signal that will be amplified by an internal preamp?
Then I don't get what the user manual meant for "EXT.MIC"...

Sorry to bother you with this

[Arni99]

Arni99, I am not using any firmware, I am trying to find out about the H120 to see if it does what I need (as I said in the first post).
It's not a matter of plug-in power, but amplification.
So, this unit does not have a MIC-IN, that is, a signal that will be amplified by an internal preamp?
Then I don't get what the user manual meant for "EXT.MIC"...

Sorry to bother you with this

you are not using any firmware?

this unit has a line-in which is a "fake" mic-in at the same time as it provides plugin power AND amplification by it´s internal preamp.
i never read the iriver manual as I never use the original firmware.
if you wanna tape concerts, rockbox this unit and you will be happy .
your "ext.mic" refers to the standard iriver manual i guess and the standard firmware.
in terms of rockbox-firmware it´s called like in my post above with it´s 4 options.
in case "ext.mic" is still in the iriver´s FAQs here, it needs to be updated and changed to "line in".

[mauri]

Happy to hear it has mic-in then

Ok, now:

in terms of rockbox-firmware it´s called like in my post above with it´s 4 options

The 4 options, as taken from this site's topic "iRiver Tapers FAQ" are:

• Internal Mic: The iriver's internal mic.  Handy for recording lectures, but don't make the mistake of selecting this as your source for recording live music.
• Line In: For analog input.
• Digital: For...you guessed it...digital input
• FM Radio

So you select Line In. If you record a loud concert, you don't need preamp, just mic (and battery box), you plug it into the jack and that's it. But if you record an acoustic concert and you want to have the H120 use it's internal preamplifier, how do you tell it to?
It only has one jack, that can work either as mic-in or line-in, so there must be an option somewhere where you indicate what you want it to work like, mic-in or line-in, use internal preamp or not? Where's that option in the Rockbox menu?

Please someone explain it to me, I'm going nuts 

[whatboutbob]

Stop thinking of the h120 like its a MD.  Forget 'mic-in'.  There's only one analog recording option (line-in) where you then control the gain applied by the internal preamp from 0dB gain up to...err...I forget...45dB...lots anyway.  To my ears it starts getting noisy at ~24dB, so I don't go above that.

Imagine if you must that the equivalent of mic-in kicks in automagically at some point between 0dB and 45dB gain - but its still called line-in.

For example, when I used to run at853 > 3wirebb > h120 for loud rock shows I'd set gain to ~10dB - for acoustic I'd bump that up to ~24dB.

[mauri]

THANK YOU!!
I got it at last

So the internal preamp is always in the way, you just keep it's gain low when recording loud sounds.
What do you think about it's noise when you record moderate sounds, such as an acoustic guitar concert? Do the recordings come out with good quality?
I'll search in the archive section to see if there are samples using it with gain around 24, as you said.
Thank you very much.

[Chuck]

It depends on what microphones you use.
I set the gain between 20db and 24db, on the iHP-120 (line in) with Church SCT-11's, when recording rock bands, on-stage.

[Arni99]

It depends on what microphones you use.
I set the gain between 20db and 24db, on the iHP-120 (line in) with Church SCT-11's, when recording rock bands, on-stage.

correct ,
set the l+r gain in rockbox to +24dB and use AGC-safety-clip which will decrease levels when clipping might occur. it will NOT boost levels ever again.

[mauri]

Thank you for all the information and suggestions!

I found some samples of the H120 recording quiet sounds with just a mic (no external preamp), and after listening to them I decided to buy the H120 at a local auction site. It seems noise depends greately on the mics used, I will try to get the best I can afford, may be Core Sound's Binaurals (not the low cost version, but the modified ones that also come with the battery box).
As the H120 I may buy doesn't come with any acompanying cd, do you know if there is any software needed to connect the H120 to the pc?

[Arni99]

Thank you for all the information and suggestions!

I found some samples of the H120 recording quiet sounds with just a mic (no external preamp), and after listening to them I decided to buy the H120 at a local auction site. It seems noise depends greately on the mics used, I will try to get the best I can afford, may be Core Sound's Binaurals (not the low cost version, but the modified ones that also come with the battery box).
As the H120 I may buy doesn't come with any acompanying cd, do you know if there is any software needed to connect the H120 to the pc?

you don´t need any software for connecting it to your pc´s USB.
in the meantime read the rockbox installation manual www.rockbox.org and get the files necessary for installing rockbox.