Topic: Merging Stereo & Theater systems. Outlaw 990 / 7500?

[JasonR]

Hey guys,

I caught the upgrade bug, and am thinking about finally merging my separate 2-channel music and 5.1 theater system.  Right now my systems look like this:

2 Ch. Audio:
Preamp: Aragon 24k sp (with ips power supply & Penny & Giles potentiometer)
Amp: Rotel RB-980BX (120x2)
Speakers: Martin Logan SL3

5.1 Theater:
Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR600 (dts, component video i/o)
Speakers: Atlantic Technology T70
TV: Sharp LC-46D64U (1080p 46" LCD) - arriving shortly - replaces 30" Toshiba CRT HDTV

Goal - merge the two systems without sacrificing sound quality of 2-channel playback.

I've been looking at the Outlaw 990 Preamp/Processor which looks like it may be a suitable preamp for both duties.  I was interested in the 970 originally, but the reviews I'm reading seem the least positive about 2-channel audio.  I'm thinking of going with something like this:

Outlaw 990 pre/pro
Outlaw 7500 amp (200x5)
Martin Logan Motif (center channel)
Existing rear speakers from Atlantic set
Existing 10" powered sub from Atlantic set

Down the road, I'd think about swapping out the sub depending on how well it integrates in the above scenario.  And hopefully find a good deal on some wall-mountable speakers like ML Frescos or something.

I guess the big question is, will I be sacrificing sound quality by giving up my great analog preamp for a digital pre/pro like the 990?  Also, the 990 lacks HDMI i/o, so I'd be connecting my DVD (future HD-DVD w/ 1080p) and HD cable box via DVI.  The only downside I can see is support for the newest HD audio.  Do I understand correctly that the better HD-DVD players will convert these to DTS on-the-fly to be transmitted over the optical output?  Outlaw hasn't announced their HDMI pre/pro yet, and few have come to market yet.  Onkyo announced something recently that looks promising, but I think it's too early to know how it actually sounds.

Anyway... what do you guys think?  Is Outlaw as good as the zealots say?  I know my SL3s will benefit greatly from a more powerful amp like the 7500, as I'm pushing the Rotel to its limits.  I'm pretty confident that the amp is a good choice (though the 7-channel may be wiser long term), but just worry about dumping a great sounding analog system for the unknown in the digital realm.  And from the other perspective, should I take a closer look at the 970?  It's a steal on paper, but if the 2-channel performance isn't great, then I think I'll be unhappy.

Thanks!

- Jason

[Nick's Picks]

the amplification w/your speakers is a very, very important aspect.
these big logans not only like a lot of power, but they really respond to *quality power*. 
just keep that in mind and you should be all set no matter where you go.

hang out on the martinloganowners club forum.
:-)
all those dudes there are really into Sunfire amps for their MLs.

[nickgregory]

I dealt with the same problem when I started my playback buildup, and I decided that the Arcam units (based on input from Scott Brown) was my best bet.  I bought the AVR300 off of A-Gon and have been ecstatic with it.

[JasonR]

Thanks, guys.

The SL3s are definitely a tough load to drive well.  I became a fan of the Aerius back in '92 or '93 and when I heard the SL3s at several dealers, I was always let down by the sound.  It wasn't until Stereophile '96 where PASS Labs has a pair set up that I heard what these speakers could do.  They just need some serious amplification.  My little Rotel doesn't really cut it.  I'm pretty sure even a great integrated like the Arcam wouldn't be quite up to the task.  Ultimately I could go with something like the Outlaw 7500, or the less expensive 7125 plus some used Krell KSA-100s if I ever get lucky enough to snag a pair.  A single multi-channel amp would be easier, takes less space, and probably worth trying before setting the bar even higher for this upgrade.

The bigger question is really about the pre/pro.  If I ditch the Aragon preamp for an Outlaw 990, will I sacrifice anything in 2-channel playback?  I'll get less exercise getting up to change the volume, but that's a good thing.    I just don't want to hear a difference that makes me miss the analog preamp.

I'll definitely check out the ML Owners forum.  I've browsed a bit there... not much, but just enough to spot Nick's Picks.

- Jason

[Nick's Picks]

http://www.sunfire.com/TGR3.htm

[JasonR]

http://www.sunfire.com/TGR3.htm

I didn't have a specific budget in mind, but $5k is outside it.    Looks like a really nice machine though, especially for a one-box.

- Jason

[Nick's Picks]

find a used one

[JasonR]

find a used one

Yeah... so $4k - still about twice what I'd like to spend on pre/pro/amp and I'm really not nuts about the all-in-one approach from an upgrading and depreciation perspective.  But that's just me.

- Jason

[JasonR]

Nick - what are you running these days?  You've got the ML Sequel IIs, right?

[Nick's Picks]

yea.
Grace 901 (Oade Moded..pending) > Odyssey Stratos monoblocks

[BC]

yea.
Grace 901 (Oade Moded..pending) > Odyssey Stratos monoblocks

what's the mod?    

[Nick's Picks]

something he does to the line output.  probably new guts for that signal path.
he says it brings the 901 to "almost as good as my Meitner"

Doug has never steered me wrong with a "this sounds good" recommendation about anything.

[Nick's Picks]

Jason...
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl

all sorts of freakin' awesome deals here.

[JasonR]

Thanks, Nick.  That's how I got my SL3s.  I couldn't pass up a great local(ish) deal.

- Jason

[JasonR]

Figured I'd follow up and report that I got a 990 refurb (which includes free shipping, making the deal even better), and a 7500 amp is scheduled for delivery today. 

I hooked up the 990 last night and I'm really impressed.  I wrote up a brief report/review on the Outlaws site, but suffice to say, I'm pretty sure I made the right decision.  The 990 is a really wonderful piece of machinery.

And Nick - thank you for mentioning Audiogon.  I have audiogon.com and videogon.com tabs open in my browser often, but hadn't been searching for Outlaw that often as the 'good' stuff doesn't show up that often.  I was refreshing more often after you mentioned it, and managed to snag a pretty nice deal on the 7500 amp... not a steal, but a very fair price that saved me a few hundred bucks off the refurb combo deal.  +T!

- Jason