Topic: Need a tip on what mic to get...

[duckman]

I need to get me a new mic, as my taping yesterday went really bad because of my need to use my minidisc as a power source for my mic.
The MiniDisc just shut down after an hour of taping, which has never happened before, and made me realise it's time to get new gear...

To explain further:

I run a Jukebox3, with a Sony ECM-DS70P mic. I for one am really happy with the outcome, as the tapes usually are for my listening only and  don't have a high-end stereo to highlight any reductions in the sound.

I have used my minidisc as a power-source, as I haven't bothered to get me a batt-box due to my long-term plan of getting a replacement mic "soon".

I am VERY happy with the way the Sony feels and works when taping, as most of my taping is semi-stealth. I don't want separate mics, and I want a mic that's about the size as the Sony. Nothing bigger anyway.

I want one with built-in power, as that would cut down on all the clutter in my bag

Concerts in Norway are usually noisy as people have no respect for the performers, and tend to chatter along during the shows. So I cannot pick up to much background noise.

I tape both electric and acoustic shows. I sometimes have to move around during shows, because of the talking.

My budget is up to 150$...

Your input would be deeply appreciated...

[fmaderjr]

Church Audio cards would sound way better than your mic. The Sony has no bass response (only goes down to 100 Hz). They also are extremely resistant to overloading the mic preamp (about 12 DB less sensitive than the average mini-mic). 

There are 2 mic elements, but they are way smaller than the Sony. I tuck the elements into the inside liner of a baseball cap and notice no muffling of the sound at all. I run the mic cord down the back of my neck inside my shirt and up though a small hole I've cut in my shirt pocket to the mini-disc recorder. No one can tell I'm recording.

Copy & paste the link below into your browser.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/STEREO-CARDIOID-MICROPHONE-4-MINIDISC-DAT-EDIROL-R09_W0QQitemZ250174573752QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3281QQcmdZViewItem

I would also strongly recommend his battery box for extremely loud shows (I use it for basically all shows). It's tiny and works great.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/STEREO-MICROPHONE-BATTERY-BOX-4-MINIDISC-MD-MP3-EDIROL_W0QQitemZ5861399837QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3281QQcmdZViewItem

It does usaully take Chris Church 4 weeks or so to complete and order (all his stuff is custom made and he has a pretty long waiting list), but it's well worth the wait.

[duckman]

Thanks

But I'd rather have everything in one mic, as I never use a cap or a hat, and certainly never indoors!
It's my guess clipping these to my coat might give a bad reception when I stand in a crowd ?

Would perhaps this be an alternative?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/STEREO-T-MIC-FOR-MINIDISC-DAT-AND-MP3-RECORDERS_W0QQitemZ9733766764QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3281QQcmdZViewItem

[attheshow]

If you're okay with the sound (and lack of bass/highs) with the sony mic you have, then the ECM-719 might make a good upgrade. It is fairly small, single point stereo, and operates on an internal watch battery. To give you an idea what it sounds like, here is a link to a real-world recording I made with it:
http://www.archive.org/details/raq2007-09-14.ats.flac16 IIRC this recording was made line in to an MD (MZ-RH-1).

[fmaderjr]

For what you  require, I think the Church T mic would be an excellent alternative. He makes great mics for the price.

I just prefer not using omni mics myself most of the time because they don't reject any crown noise behind you. Also sometimes they seem to pick up too much bass, but that can usually be toned down with your audio editor if necessary. 

I think you are right to be hesitant to clip mics to your coat. They might not be high enough for optimum pick up and they are easily brushed against by others in the audience or the coat fabric itself, causing nasty noises that you have to try to edit out of your final recording.

[duckman]

For what you  require, I think the Church T mic would be an excellent alternative. He makes great mics for the price.

I just prefer not using omni mics myself most of the time because they don't reject any crown noise behind you. Also sometimes they seem to pick up too much bass, but that can usually be toned down with your audio editor if necessary. 

Thanks

I'm seriously considering that one, it looks like the one I'm used to, which makes for less time spent trying to get new mics to work in familiar settings (usually I tape the same 2-3 venues, so I know the best spots).

But I'm also considering getting more than one, to try out different settings. Do you or anyone have anything to recommend that's not two split mics (on basis of hats rarely being used indoors over here), and which perhaps are stronger on "ignoring" crowd noise - as the concert crowds over here are notoriously respectless.. ??

[fmaderjr]

Sorry-can't help you there. I have no knowledge of anything similar that might sound better.

[carbine000]

Since we are talking about the Sony ECM-DS70P I had a few questions.

Church Audio cards would sound way better than your mic. The Sony has no bass response (only goes down to 100 Hz). They also are extremely resistant to overloading the mic preamp (about 12 DB less sensitive than the average mini-mic). 

Someone else was saying this and I am slowly understanding, lol. So what if the mic as an external power supply? Will that allow it to better receive the lows and highs without being distorted? Or is the range of the mic just too narrow and there will always be distortion? (especially at loud rock shows).

I am pretty much sick of the distortion on the mic when trying to tape. Im thinking of one of these two options:

1.  Ditching the Sony ECM-DS70P and getting these binaurals and power supply from church audio. http://cgi.ebay.ca/STEREO-MICROPHONES-PREAMP-4-MINIDISC-DAT-MD-MP3_W0QQitemZ250174572273QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3281QQcmdZViewItem

Then running B-99A > preamp > line in

OR

2. Just getting the preamp from church audio and running it inbetween the ECM-DS70P and the minidisc. Would that work? Thoughts?

[attheshow]

1. Binaural mics will pic up a lot of crowd noise. Probably not what you're looking for. You'll want Cardiod mics.

2. Although the external power source may help with louder shows, you would still be limited by the dymanic range of the mic (100Hz to 15kHz). If you can live with this, this might be okay for you, but you'll get better results with a mic that covers closer to the full audible spectrum ~20Hz-20kHz.

[carbine000]

But cardioids need to be pointed at the sound source to work properly no? I am 5'6 so people standing in front of me could be a problem unless I wear a hat and put the mics on my hat. How crucial is it that the mics be pointed at the sound source? If I turned my head would it be very noticeable?

[Belexes]

I understand the need to get the mics high and pointed at the sound source, but to have them on your head an introduce phasing if you move your head.  If you remain still, you will be okay.  The closer you are to sound source, the more noticeable the phasing will be.
I usually have my mics at shoulder level so I can have head movement if need be and try and point them towards the mains. 

[carbine000]

2. Although the external power source may help with louder shows, you would still be limited by the dymanic range of the mic (100Hz to 15kHz). If you can live with this, this might be okay for you, but you'll get better results with a mic that covers closer to the full audible spectrum ~20Hz-20kHz.

Ok, see if I got this right. Because the dymanic range of the mic (100Hz - 15,000Hz) is narrower than the audible spectrum (20Hz - 20,000Hz), it cant pick up certain low ends (20Hz - 99Hz) and certain high ends (16,000Hz - 20,000Hz) which is causing the distortion. Applying more power to the mic might be able to allow it to better handle the frequencies at its limits but it wont extend the range of the mic, say from 100Hz out to 80Hz. So if I get a mic with a range of 20Hz to 20kHz it would perform better and especially with the STC-9000 to supply power it will better cope with the frequencies at its min and max limits.

How does SPL, particulary high SPL sounds fit into all this?

[attheshow]

There are two different issues going on here. The frequency range of the mic (what frequencies the mic is able to pick up) and the SPL (sound pressure level) handling of the mic. The frequency range of the mic is not greatly affected by powering the mic, but the SPL handling is. So, by powering the mic you increase its ability to handle loud sounds. If the sound is louder than what the mic can handle you get distortion.

Regardless of powering, a mic with a frequency range of 100Hz-15kHz will not adequately capture all the highs and lows that you hear at a concert. This is not a cause of distortion, it simply means that these frequencies which you heard with your ears at the show won't be (as) present in your recording.

Ideally, what you want is a set of mics that captures most, if not all of the 20Hz-20kHz range, and can handle the high SPLs present at a rock concert.

[digifish_music]

I need to get me a new mic, as my taping yesterday went really bad because of my need to use my minidisc as a power source for my mic.
The MiniDisc just shut down after an hour of taping, which has never happened before, and made me realise it's time to get new gear...

To explain further:

My budget is up to 150$...

Your input would be deeply appreciated...

Based on your need for semi-stealth, I'd suggest a pair of these slung around your neck, lots of capsule options too...

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ISI-HMA-1





digifish

[carbine000]

There are two different issues going on here. The frequency range of the mic (what frequencies the mic is able to pick up) and the SPL (sound pressure level) handling of the mic. The frequency range of the mic is not greatly affected by powering the mic, but the SPL handling is. So, by powering the mic you increase its ability to handle loud sounds. If the sound is louder than what the mic can handle you get distortion.

Regardless of powering, a mic with a frequency range of 100Hz-15kHz will not adequately capture all the highs and lows that you hear at a concert. This is not a cause of distortion, it simply means that these frequencies which you heard with your ears at the show won't be (as) present in your recording.

Ideally, what you want is a set of mics that captures most, if not all of the 20Hz-20kHz range, and can handle the high SPLs present at a rock concert.

So if the mic has a maximum SPL level of 110 dB SPL does that mean that if I applied power to it, I couldnt extend the SPL to say 115? Instead, applying more power to it would only increase the ability of the mic to handle the 110 db SPL?  Then it would follow that I need to get something that can handle 120 dB SPL then because it will always distort above 110 dB.