Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?

[John Willett]

Mr. Willett, which ones above would work better for studio work?

It depends on the studio, it depends on the piano and it depends on the music.

There are probably as many ways to mic. a piano as there are recording engineers.

You choose the technique and distance to match the the piano, music and venue.  Some need more close miking than others.

If you are recording several instruments at the same time you also need to get the balance right.

Underneath can work in many situations.  Boundary mics on the floor can work well, as can boundary mics on the lid.  Normal SDCs pointed at the lid and about 1mm away can work pretty well at imitating a boundary mic..

But it's really a matter of using your ears to hear what sounds best in the space - move around, closer and further away, and use what you hear to find the best place to put the mics.

There is no hard and fast rule and everyone has a different theory.

I hope this helps.

[rokpunk]

Considering this recording is taking place in NOLAfishwaters friends house and not a studio, I wouldn't count on the space being the most acousticlly desirable room to record in....which is why I suggested close mic'ing, with some isolation coming form a sound blanket, and no room mics. But, that's just me and how I would first approach the recording. YMMV.

[F.O.Bean]

Considering this recording is taking place in NOLAfishwaters friends house and not a studio, I wouldn't count on the space being the most acousticlly desirable room to record in....which is why I suggested close mic'ing, with some isolation coming form a sound blanket, and no room mics. But, that's just me and how I would first approach the recording. YMMV.

Also, since it is a friends house, that should suggest that NOLA also has a few times to get it *right* for his friend........meaning that I doubt he has to get it professionally right within the first 5 mins he is at his friends house. I would chill there for 3-4 hrs at the least and try a bunch of diff options and bring along a GREAT pair of monitoring cans and you all should be happy in the end! Just listen closely on the cans and see what sounds best in the space available.........

[NOLAfishwater]

+T's for all of you. I will be trying all of the suggested techniques and will report back later this week. Planning on rolling over there on Wed. night. Don't know what the room is set up like b/c he just moved into his new place. Either way we will probably be knocking back a few drinks and taking our time.

[F.O.Bean]

+T's for all of you. I will be trying all of the suggested techniques and will report back later this week. Planning on rolling over there on Wed. night. Don't know what the room is set up like b/c he just moved into his new place. Either way we will probably be knocking back a few drinks and taking our time.

+T. That sounds like the best approach. and as long as both of you are happy, thats all that matters

[John Willett]

Since it's in a friend's house, it should be in a room that will make it sound OK.

I recorded a double-CD of Chopin Nocturnes a few years ago on a piano in a family home.

Listen carefully with your ears as the best place may not be what you expect.  In my case I used a 20cm pair of MKH 20s about 2 to 3 metres from the piano behind and a little to the right of the pianist.

We got this by listening and making a few short test recordings before deciding on the final position.

In retrospect, the room was a little too small for the 9' Steinway Concert Grand and a very small bit of reverb would have been ideal to open up the walls - but at the time good natural reverb units did not exist and I preferred to have it a little dry than sounding artificial.

I hope thsi helps.

[Brian]

a lot of good suggestions here from john, rokpunk, and others, but here's something that i don't think was mentioned yet.

make sure the piano is tuned before recording (unless of course you are going for that "out-of-tune" feel )

nothing like taking all that time to get the perfect setup only to find out the piano is out of tune.

[rokpunk]

Considering this recording is taking place in NOLAfishwaters friends house and not a studio, I wouldn't count on the space being the most acousticlly desirable room to record in....which is why I suggested close mic'ing, with some isolation coming form a sound blanket, and no room mics. But, that's just me and how I would first approach the recording. YMMV.

Also, since it is a friends house, that should suggest that NOLA also has a few times to get it *right* for his friend........meaning that I doubt he has to get it professionally right within the first 5 mins he is at his friends house. I would chill there for 3-4 hrs at the least and try a bunch of diff options and bring along a GREAT pair of monitoring cans and you all should be happy in the end! Just listen closely on the cans and see what sounds best in the space available.........

Bean makes a great point....and without one emote!!!!

[Tim]

[F.O.Bean]

fockers

there, are yinz happy now

[John Willett]

..... make sure the piano is tuned before recording

Absolutely - When I record we always have a piano technician on site who checks the piano over. and tweaks if necessary, during each break.

[rokpunk]

I did a show with Ramsey Lewis a few months back. I have never seen a pianist lay into a piano tuner as hard as Ramsey did. The tuner spent over two hours tuning, then Ramsey sat down, hit a couple of keys, and made the guy retune it, this time without his fancy computer piano tuning program. Ramsey had the best ear of any musician I have ever worked with. He and I walked the room together and tuned the PA together. I have to admit, it sounded better after he helped me tune the room. After he was happy with the room and PA sound, I hardly touched a fader the rest of the night. Good jazz players mix themselves with dynamics. His paino was mic'ed with a pair of Schoeps CMC6/MK4's.

[Tim]

That's a cool story. Ramsey is a legend

[guysonic]

A piano tuner friend of 20 years specializes in a custom 'classical' tuning not inside those tuning computers.  However he did find one of those that allowed him to program his brand of tuning into it a few years ago that helps get the instrument quickly 'in the ball park' with finish tuning done by ear.

While quite different from today's modern tuning, his classical tuning seems to work with most modern pieces including jazz.  Some musicians now demand this type of tuning as it makes playing more pleasurable and correct for what they feel represents the music more faithfully, a few musicians hate this tuning, so matter of personal 'learned' tastes. 

Very few piano tuners really know how to tune in one of many 'classical' ways correctly, and Ramsey might also have preferred a more 'classical' tuning for being far more musical, at least when one learns how to listen for the benefits. 

All the selections in the 'Paul Bailey collection' are ONLY done with piano carefully 'tuned' in custom non-modern manner at www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm#bailey

[MusicTech]

Hi.  I realize this is a bit out of date, but thought I would add it to the "archive."

I'm taking the Recording Arts program at Los Medanos College, and one of the instructors/engineers/producers (with several Grammys under his belt) showed us this arrangement a few weeks ago.  In addition to the mics in the photos, two mics were flown about 20' high toward the rear of the studio, one along each wall, pointed at the wall, to pick up ambient sound.  Made for interesting mix possibilities.

He also handed out the diagram in the second attachment to illustrate the micing for Herbie Hancock's album, "The Piano".  The mic underneath the piano would be out of phase with the others.