Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: MT II problems  (Read 47916 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (35)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3349
  • Gender: Male
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #195 on: July 13, 2008, 11:29:18 PM »
manitouman, you asked:

> On the M-Audio site it states: "Professional balanced ¼” TRS inputs capable of mic or line-level signals." So does this mean the signal from the preamp, in my case the 9100, needs to be a balanced signal? One gain knob controlling both mics is NOT a balanced signal? Someone enlighten me please.

This use of the word "balanced" doesn't refer to the relative levels between the two channels, such as the "balance control" on a stereo amplifier or receiver would affect. Instead, it refers to the preferred way of sending signals down a cable in professional audio, which differs from the way used in consumer audio.

In consumer audio, cables are shielded, the shields are connected to the chassis of the equipment that they're plugged into on both ends, and each channel has one signal-bearing lead wrapped within the shield. In balanced connections there are two independent signal-bearing leads within the shield for each channel. Neither signal lead is connected to the shield at either end of the connection.

Also--this may seem technical, but it's essential--those two signal-bearing wires are at the same impedance (relative to ground) as each other. That's what creates the "balance." Because of the identical impedance, Ohm's Law tells us that as the signal voltage rises and falls, the current flowing in the two conductors will always be identical to each other at any given moment, with equal and opposite signal voltages.

That's the key, since a balanced input responds ONLY to the difference in voltage between those two leads--ignoring the voltage between either lead and ground. Any interference that the cable picks up should affect the voltage in both signal leads equally, leaving their voltage relationship intact. In this way a balanced input essentially ignores interference, and that's why balanced connections are the norm in professional audio.

A typical unbalanced input connector is an RCA socket--a coaxial "pin plug" such as you'd find at the CD inputs of a hi-fi preamp or receiver. It has an outer contact (shield/ground) and an inner contact which connects with the pin of the plug. A typical balanced input connector is an XLR-3F, which has shield/ground on pin 1 and the two signal leads on pins 2 and 3. The MicroTrack's "stereo phone" sockets are an alternative to XLR sockets, with the shield/ground on the sleeve of the connector and the tip and ring being the two signal connections.

Any balanced input can accept unbalanced signals, but not all ways of hooking up such an arrangement are created equal. The ideal way, if you want best noise immunity, is to create a balanced signal at the output of the signal source; then use balanced cable and a balanced plug. There are other ways to connect unbalanced sources to balanced inputs, but they don't get you the noise immunity of a balanced connection.

--best regards
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 12:07:00 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

audiothings

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #196 on: July 14, 2008, 10:33:34 AM »
mr. D.Satz,

just to say that i have been collecting your contributions from here and PSW. If there is a God, may He shower His choicest blessings on You.

jai shankar.

Offline flintstone

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #197 on: July 14, 2008, 12:52:18 PM »
"it's the same 1/4" plug as you'd find on any set of stereo headphones"

which is to say it has electrical contacts at tip, ring and sleeve positions
on the plug (hence called a TRS plug). 

Like DSatz says, a balanced cable has two conductors carrying the output
signal from one mic, and one conductor acting as ground.   This is why the
MT II needs two 1/4" inputs:  One for left channel, and one for right channel.

Just to make things more confusing, most of the TRS cables you'll find
are unbalanced.  The Tip carries one channel, the Ring carries the
other channel, and the sleeve is ground.  This is the way most 1/8-inch
mini-jacks are wired in consumer gear.

The MT II gives you a choice.  You can run the input from two mics unbalanced
into the single 1/8-inch mic input on the top of the recorder, or you can use
separate cables for balanced input into the two 1/4-inch jacks.

Flintstone

Offline manitouman

  • Trade Count: (36)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2018
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Bulls!!!
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #198 on: August 23, 2008, 11:42:30 AM »
So I went on a trip to Alpine Valley and caught the Crowes + DMB for two nights. I had the MBHO's and 702 recording but also wanted to see how well the MTII did. I did two recordings for both nights.

Night one: Ran CA-ST11's with the omni caps, mounted to stand @ 10'. Plugged into Phillips extension cable (which was cheap at Wal-mart and worked great!), plugged into 1/8" jack on CA-9100 pre>1/8" mini to 2X 1/4" TRS plugs>MTII. Latest firmware, recording at 24/96.

To avoid the sprinkler sound I've heard about, I did lowered the gain on the MTII all the way down, and did all adjustments on the 9100 pre. The Black Crowes set turned out good. Forgot my USB cable to connect external battery pack so I didn't record DMB on night one.

Night two: Same set-up but mics @12'. The Black Crowes turned out good. Powered off between sets. Turned on 9100 and then turned on MTII. That's how I always power up. Started to record DMB. Right before the encore (or during) I noticed that the MTII had froze up at about 2 hours 43 minutes. Since I was recording with the 702 as well, I wasn't too worried about it. But the MTII would not power off or do anything. Halfway into the first encore song, it was blank so I powered it back up and resumed recording the rest of the encore.

I guess I don't understand what happened. I had plenty of power with the Macally external, plenty of disc space. It just froze. It was very well ventilated so heat was not an issue. Warm but not more than any other time I've used it. I don't get it. And the file that was writing at the time of freezing says it's 0. But I've read threads where it explains how to retrieve it with software so I'll try that. I just would hate to be in a situation where the MTII is my main rig and this happens.

This happen to anyone else? Any thoughts? Greatly appreciated!
Mics: AKG CK31, CK32>LM 3> MPA III


Offline guysonic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1366
  • WISDOM FOR ALL TIMES
    • Sonic Studios DSM Stereo-Surround Microphone Systems
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #199 on: August 24, 2008, 10:37:47 AM »
Although this deck has been known to lock up, sometimes it's the type of flash card (working in super fast burst mode) that can be at fault. 

Suggest using cards with continuous write speed specifications, and not those only listing 100x+ times type ratings.
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

DSM HRTF STEREO-SURROUND RECORDING SYSTEMS WEBSITE: http://www.sonicstudios.com

Offline manitouman

  • Trade Count: (36)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2018
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Bulls!!!
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2008, 03:26:52 PM »
Although this deck has been known to lock up, sometimes it's the type of flash card (working in super fast burst mode) that can be at fault. 

Suggest using cards with continuous write speed specifications, and not those only listing 100x+ times type ratings.

Thanks for the input. I forgot to mention the flash card type: Kingston elite pro 8GB 45X compact flash. So it's not some cheapo card. Would this still lock it up? I was thinking that maybe because the show was so long that that could have locked it up. I dunno...
Mics: AKG CK31, CK32>LM 3> MPA III


Offline guysonic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1366
  • WISDOM FOR ALL TIMES
    • Sonic Studios DSM Stereo-Surround Microphone Systems
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #201 on: August 28, 2008, 03:00:49 AM »
Kingston Elite Pro type cards seem to have mostly good reports, so no help. 

Firmware upgrade does seem most appropriate for MT2 lockup issues with otherwise OK working card types.
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

DSM HRTF STEREO-SURROUND RECORDING SYSTEMS WEBSITE: http://www.sonicstudios.com

Online dallman

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • *
  • Posts: 1819
  • Gender: Male
    • Clifford Morse
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #202 on: August 28, 2008, 01:28:30 PM »
Kingston Elite Pro type cards seem to have mostly good reports, so no help. 

Firmware upgrade does seem most appropriate for MT2 lockup issues with otherwise OK working card types.

This may be meaningless, but on the MT1, prior to the last firmware upgrade (or maybe second to last) I had lots of trouble with Kingston cards locking up. After that upgrade however I never had a problem again. It may be possible that with an early firmware release on the MT2, perhaps the card is responsible for the lockup. It makes sense, but again, I am somewhat comparing maybe not apples to oranges , so much as a peach to a nectarine... ;D
Support Live Music: Tape A Show Today!
Deck>possibly something here> Mics

Offline manitouman

  • Trade Count: (36)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2018
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Bulls!!!
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #203 on: September 10, 2008, 07:20:22 PM »
Two more strikes against the MTII for me. Night before I taped Foo at Red Rocks. At the encore everything looked good, checked the battery level and I still had half going so I didn't plug in the external battery pack for fear of locking up on me. The show was about 2:15 long, encore about 20 minutes including break. Figured I was good, didn't look at it again until the end. It had shut down, no encore at all was recorded. Pissed!

Night two: I had everything going good, waited till about an hour into the show and figured it was a safe place to plug in the external battery pack. A couple songs later, it was locked up. The screen still had the recording displayed but it was not moving anymore, just locked up. Wouldn't turn off, wouldn't do nothing. Unplugged the battery, took everything I had to not throw the thing on the ground and stomp on it! Finally, it shut down on it's own and I fired it back up without the external battery and it recorded the rest fine.

So I have two incomplete recordings. First night is missing the 3 song encore and the second night is missing two songs in the middle. The first half of night two is missing the header information so I've been looking around for an easy fix for that. The file shows 1.86 GB (24/96) so it's there but when I try to open in Cool Edit Pro it says it has no header. So I'll try to figure out how to fix that.

Any clues on the MTII locking up with external battery applied? I'll be shopping around for a replacement. I almost wish I never got rid of my MTI which I never had a problem with. 2GB split was not worth it to "upgrade" to this junker.

One word....UNRELIABLE!  :-\
Mics: AKG CK31, CK32>LM 3> MPA III


Offline taperwheeler

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Gender: Male
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #204 on: September 11, 2008, 12:49:28 PM »
Are you running the newest firmware?  I haven't had any trouble with mine locking up.  May be that you have a lemon.  I'd think about sending it in for a replacement.
Another suggestion, I have my Macally battery plugged in at the start of a recording when I know that I may need secondary battery juice to get me through.  Hasn't caused any lockups.  If/when the external gets low, I wait for a break in the music to shut it off. 
Mics: SP-CMC-8 AT933 Body 4.7K mod AT853 (c, sc) U853 (h) Microline Shotguns
Pres: CA 9100, SP-Preamp
Recorders: MT2 , Tascam DR-07, PCM-M10, PCM A10

Offline NOLAfishwater

  • is not taping much these days
  • Trade Count: (72)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6344
  • Gender: Male
  • I LIKE FISHIN
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #205 on: September 11, 2008, 03:15:28 PM »
Manitou, I run my external full time. Try just running it off the external the whole show. That should solve your problem.

Online dallman

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • *
  • Posts: 1819
  • Gender: Male
    • Clifford Morse
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #206 on: September 11, 2008, 03:17:25 PM »
I only have an MT 1, but it sounds like you have a bad unit. I have never had any kind of battery lockup. I plug in and pull out the battery all the time, and never give it a second thought.

Generally, I use a Zap battery, and I always use it whether I need it or not. I accept the fact that the MT has a short lifespan, but the Zap battery is thin and I use a retractable USB cable that is really not noticeable. Almost always when a show is over, my MT shows an icon with a little electric plug, indicating that it is fully charged. The Zap battery seems to have a lot of life to it.

I know the MT2 is a different animal, but it seems unlikely that the battery would lock the unit up unless there is a problem with the unit. And again, I do not know if this is true with the MT2, but the MT1 charges more fully when it is powered on. I never get the little plug icon with the unit charging while it is powered off. It just seems to stop charging at some point. With the unit powered on though, it will charge fully. It is a quirk of the unit (and it is quirky), but never a problem caused by this.
Support Live Music: Tape A Show Today!
Deck>possibly something here> Mics

Offline manitouman

  • Trade Count: (36)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2018
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Bulls!!!
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #207 on: September 11, 2008, 07:40:48 PM »
^^^Thanks for the info and replies. I may just have a lemon. Which is okay, I'll just have to send it in.

I have the latest firmware 1.0.4, which is actually the only release available on M-Audio's page. The first time it locked on me at the Black Crowes/DMB I had the external Macally battery plugged in. It looked like it was charging with the battery indicator scrolling. Then it had the little plug icon meaning it was fully charged? The battery icon was replaced with a little plug icon, is what I was trying to say. That's when it froze the first time.

The second time, a couple nights ago, I plugged in the battery about an hour into the show. It started scrolling the battery icon as if it was charging then it locked up within two songs of being plugged in. This time I used my homemade Altoids tin double AA charger. Which has worked flawlessly with the MTI. The battery indicator was full but it had locked up.

I also use a retractable usb cable (phillips brand?) and it has never failed either. I probably just have to send it in and hope I get some results from M-Audio. I think it's too late to return to the place of purchase but still covered by warranty through M-Audio......I think! Have to check on that.

Thanks folks! +T's around.  ;D
Mics: AKG CK31, CK32>LM 3> MPA III


Offline taperwheeler

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Gender: Male
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #208 on: September 11, 2008, 09:28:03 PM »
There is one firmware beta that came out 1.0.6

Doesn't say it addresses any other lockup issues, but may be worth trying.  It's here:

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=904

Mics: SP-CMC-8 AT933 Body 4.7K mod AT853 (c, sc) U853 (h) Microline Shotguns
Pres: CA 9100, SP-Preamp
Recorders: MT2 , Tascam DR-07, PCM-M10, PCM A10

Online dallman

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • *
  • Posts: 1819
  • Gender: Male
    • Clifford Morse
Re: MT II problems
« Reply #209 on: September 12, 2008, 12:34:32 PM »
^^^Thanks for the info and replies. I may just have a lemon. Which is okay, I'll just have to send it in.

I have the latest firmware 1.0.4, which is actually the only release available on M-Audio's page. The first time it locked on me at the Black Crowes/DMB I had the external Macally battery plugged in. It looked like it was charging with the battery indicator scrolling. Then it had the little plug icon meaning it was fully charged? The battery icon was replaced with a little plug icon, is what I was trying to say. That's when it froze the first time.

The second time, a couple nights ago, I plugged in the battery about an hour into the show. It started scrolling the battery icon as if it was charging then it locked up within two songs of being plugged in. This time I used my homemade Altoids tin double AA charger. Which has worked flawlessly with the MTI. The battery indicator was full but it had locked up.

I also use a retractable usb cable (phillips brand?) and it has never failed either. I probably just have to send it in and hope I get some results from M-Audio. I think it's too late to return to the place of purchase but still covered by warranty through M-Audio......I think! Have to check on that.

Thanks folks! +T's around.  ;D

When you see the little plug icon, yes, this means the unit is fully charged. It is in essence saying it is getting the current from the wall, but because we adapt batteries for external power, the deck assumes it is drawing power from the wall which in fact is any external power source. The scrolling icon is exactly as you say, the unit is charging the battery, and if recording, it is also powering the battery and you are NOT using an external battery,at that point the icon does not scroll, but shows some kind of not especially accurate idea of how much power is left by how full the little square box (icon) is.. And again if you are using an external source and are recording, it will scroll as the external power source is recharging the deck as well as powering it.

What I have found on the MT 1 is that if I charge the unit while it is plugged in but not turned on, at some point that scrolling icon freezes. I think the unit is largely charged, but not fully charged. But if I power up the unit, it will charge fully and I will get the little wall plug icon. Since I always use an external battery, I don't worry about the battery being fully charged or not, and in my opinion the battery is the weak link on the unit, but I offer the above as a longtime MT user in the hopes it is helpful to others.

And lastly this assumes a good strong external power source. In a situation where the external power source runs out, then the internal battery is called upon. And likely, although I cannot say for sure, when the external power source is weak or inadequate, the draw will be from both the internal and external batteries together and on into just the internal source. I think having a strong external source is very critical. I have and occasionaly use an external source that holds 4 aa batteries. I like it too except for the expense of the batteries. I would never use rechargables as they are only 1.2 volts, nor would I use anything with less than 4 batteries even if it puts out 5 volts, as I don't think it has enough power. The MT1 for sure really likes a good strong power source. I assume this is true for the MT2 too.
Support Live Music: Tape A Show Today!
Deck>possibly something here> Mics

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 38 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF