Topic: Best Binaural / HRTF mic?

[jgazal]

Hi, guys!

This is my first post. Thus, be patient with my ignorance...

I would like to make the best binaural recording as possible, but I am having problems choosing the right microphone.

Soundprofessionals claims that its SP-TFB-2 will sound the "most realistic" because the capsule fits well within the pinna (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2).



I was wondering if Microphone Madness MM-BSM-8 (http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmtrunathook.htm), that fits outside the pinna, but still under the influence of the outer ear, will sound as realistic as the SP-TFB-2.



It seems that SP-TFB-2 will demand playback with ear buds (otherwise the sound will be "filtered" again by the outer ear). Will MM-BSM-8 sound better with circumaural headphones (in which the sound can be "filtered" by the outer ear during the playback)?

Has anybody tried both of them? Any thoughts about playback gear (mainly headphones types)?

Best regards,

José Luis

[Gutbucket]

I can't compare those two mics, but here's some general advice-
Personally, I find the sonic signature of the particular microphone has more influence on the overall sound and 'realism' of a binaural recording than small differences in mic placement make in, around, or even outside of the ear.  I think the best thing you can do is try several different small omni directional microphones, listen to the recordings you make with them and decide what sounds best.  Less ideally, listen to other's binaural recordings made with various mics and try to eliminate the other variables other than the microphones.. then let your ears and your wallet decide. Not surprisingly more expensive mics often sound better and 'more realistic'. Price is not always the greatest determinant though and the 'right' sound is quite personal.  Sometimes what sounds wrong with a mic is what you notice and that too can be a personal thing. 

I tend to hear what sounds 'right' or 'wrong' to me with different mics before hearing the smaller differences in mic placement (within reason - we're talking about mounting mics on your head not x/y vs. spaced omnis).  I often find pseudo-binaural HRTF type recordings (that's a contraction of Head-Related-Transfer-Function, a fancy term for head baffled recordings without outer ears) with the microphones mounted in front of, or above the ears, more convincing than true in-ear binaural recordings, even when listening with in-ear monitors (meaning no pina at all).  Not always, but that's just me.  Try a few different mics and a bunch of different methods and see what sounds best to you.

Other than personal preference, a lot depends on what you are recording.  The requirements for recording a morning sunrise in a quiet meadow are much different from recording a deafening metal show, although people record both binaurally.  In general, more expensive mics buy the ability to record quiet things with less noise or the ability to record louder sounds without distortion, but the differences may not seem as large when comparing recordings made in less demanding circumstances of medium loud stuff.

[illconditioned]

I can't compare those two mics, but here's some general advice-
Personally, I find the sonic signature of the particular microphone has more influence on the overall sound and 'realism' of a binaural recording than small differences in mic placement make in, around, or even outside of the ear.  I think the best thing you can do is try several different small omni directional microphones, listen to the recordings you make with them and decide what sounds best.  Less ideally, listen to other's binaural recordings made with various mics and try to eliminate the other variables other than the microphones.. then let your ears and your wallet decide. Not surprisingly more expensive mics often sound better and 'more realistic'. Price is not always the greatest determinant though and the 'right' sound is quite personal.  Sometimes what sounds wrong with a mic is what you notice and that too can be a personal thing. 

I tend to hear what sounds 'right' or 'wrong' to me with different mics before hearing the smaller differences in mic placement (within reason - we're talking about mounting mics on your head not x/y vs. spaced omnis).  I often find pseudo-binaural HRTF type recordings (that's a contraction of Head-Related-Transfer-Function, a fancy term for head baffled recordings without outer ears) with the microphones mounted in front of, or above the ears, more convincing than true in-ear binaural recordings, even when listening with in-ear monitors (meaning no pina at all).  Not always, but that's just me.  Try a few different mics and a bunch of different methods and see what sounds best to you.

Yep, I agree with that.  The human mind seems quite able to adapt to different recording techniques, like ORTF, quasi-hrtf, or whatever.  As long as the EQ is close, they are all OK.  I've even used quasi-hrtf mounted cardioids, and like those too.

It all comes down to the most natural sounding mics themselves.  I'm still searching for "the sound", but it seems that Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser (MKE2 omni, MKE40 cardioid) are nicest for me.  I've just got a set of Nevaton MCE400 (omni), and I think those are even better.  I'll keep you all posted.

  Richard

[Gutbucket]

I've just got a set of Nevaton MCE400 (omni), and I think those are even better.  I'll keep you all posted.

I've kept an eye on those, let me know what you think.

[M]

Hey Richard

Do you know if the Nevaton mce400 can be powered with 2 and/or 3-wire power?

Thanks

[Myco]

I've just got a set of Nevaton MCE400 (omni), and I think those are even better.  I'll keep you all posted.

I've kept an eye on those, let me know what you think.

I also just got a pair of the Nevaton MCE400 (omni's), I'll let you know how they sound once I get a chance to tape something.

[jgazal]

Thanks, guys, it has been very clarifying.

I am going to record moderate levels (i.e. classical / chamber music rehearsals). Occasionally, I will need a battery box.

I think the best way to find out which microphone I prefer is to buy both and try them inside my own ears.

Eventually, I can sell one of them or still stay with both juts in case I need a backup.

Best regards,

José Luis

[Gutbucket]

^^^
You did ask for the best.

I like the carrying handle.  Never saw one with the handle before.

[JohnnyAcey]

Check out Sennheiser's MKE2002

[illconditioned]

Check out Sennheiser's MKE2002

I've got this mic.  The mannequin head is great, but the mics themselves are not.  I recommend Sennheiser MKE2 capsules.  The original caps may have been good in their time, but the technology is old by now...

  Richard

[illconditioned]

I've got the MKE2002 kit as well.
They do a pretty decent job in really nasty, boomy, small club mixes, because they have a fairly steep bass rolloff, which can help cut through some of the mud (think reggae-dub drum and bass).
This HPF can be a detriment, as it rolls thru some critical lower end, very usable bass, in acoustic music, or, properly mixed PA bass.

I'm less inclined to be too harsh about them, as I've owned them, and, used them for so many years.

I'm not saying the caps are bad, Moke.  They are pretty good.  It is just the if you're looking for "best", get a modern capsule, either Sennheiser MKE2, DPA406x, or Nevaton .

  Richard

[Gutbucket]

The 4060's are flat down to the bottom octave.  That can be a mixed blessing.  On acoustic or well balanced amplified music the flat, extended low end rarely needs any adjustment and sounds nice and open.  For boomy little rooms & the ever-popular way overboosted slamming kick drum mix they capture all that bloat, just like it sounds.   On a truly uber-stereo that can cleanly handle all that over boosted low end it sounds just like it did in the club when played back approaching a realistic level.  For playback on anything less, or to distort that accurately recorded boom into something that sounds more balanced, I usually need to roll off some low end.  A couple dB cut with a HPF or a low shelving eq may be all that's needed, but I often find it sounds best to me to tame that boom with some parametric eq dialed in to match the bloat, usually some where between 60-120 Hz.

I wonder if that is all due to the typical flat omni low end response, or if there is also some character to the 4060 bottom end that sounds thick in bottom heavy 'small club reggae mix music' or the like.  For those of you who have used the 406x as well as other good quality small omnis such as the MKE2 & MCE400, do you find that the others perform similarly in the low end?  Do the others have a particular bass 'flavor' in those type of conditions?