Topic: Edirol R-09HR - Part TWO

[Arni99]

I made 2 test-recordings of the same source at the same gain-level:
1. Mic -in
2. Line-in

Result:
Mic-in recording is about +20dB hotter than the line-in.

Mic-in-peaks where at -10db on the levelmeter.
Line-in-peaks at -30dB.

Gain was set to 40 on the R-09HR using my sp-cmc-8 + battery box.

[gmm6797]

personally I never EQ (as everyone's ears are different, and you can always use your own EQ on your own stereo, but I know you can preview changes in SF at 24/96

[Dede2002]

personally I never EQ (as everyone's ears are different, and you can always use your own EQ on your own stereo, but I know you can preview changes in SF at 24/96

EQ? I`m not saying that I do that all the time. Only when it`s necessary.
Thanks for your response 

[gmm6797]

Well, on the EQ each to his/her own, thats for sure.... but just my 2 cents

You are welcome

[Dede2002]

Well, on the EQ each to his/her own, thats for sure.... but just my 2 cents

You are welcome

[gmm6797]

 

[digifish_music]

Some more experiments, that I did for another Tapers Section member (flintstone)...

Rig1 (internal mic pres): Clock -> AT3032 mics -> ART II Phantom power supply -> Mic in R09HR (Gain 55/80 ~ 68%, 24 bit, 44.1 kHz) -20dB peaks.



Rig2 (external mic pres): Clock -> AT3032 mics -> MixPre (Gain 7.5/10 ~75%) -> Line in R09HR (Gain 40, 24 bit, 44.1 kHz) -20 dB peaks.



Here's the recordings, 10 ticks - Rig1 (internal pres) followed by Rig 2 (external pres).

www.digifishmusic.com/public/sounds/Ticking-Clock_10xR09Pre-10xMixPrePre.wav (3.6 Meg 16 bit WAV file).

The above file is a compilation of the raw recordings back-to-back. No normalization. Here's how it looks as a spectrogram...



digifish

[flintstone]

Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.

The results also show that even lower self-noise is possible
with a high quality external preamp (the MixPre in this example).

This result says to me that the R-09HR will produce very good results using
external mics and a battery box (here, a $50 item) when recording loud
material (amplified music, loud orchestral pieces, etc). 

When your subject is less loud (unamplified music, nature sounds, speech),
your recordings will benefit from the addition of an external amp
($665 in this example).

You can see from Digifish's photo that the overall size of the recorder,
cables and preamp is about the same as the recorder/cables/battery box.
You could easily velcro the R-09HR to the top of the other box to
simplify carrying it around.

Flintstone

[rastasean]

Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.

The results also show that even lower self-noise is possible
with a high quality external preamp (the MixPre in this example).

This result says to me that the R-09HR will produce very good results using
external mics and a battery box (here, a $50 item) when recording loud
material (amplified music, loud orchestral pieces, etc). 

When your subject is less loud (unamplified music, nature sounds, speech),
your recordings will benefit from the addition of an external amp
($665 in this example).

You can see from Digifish's photo that the overall size of the recorder,
cables and preamp is about the same as the recorder/cables/battery box.
You could easily velcro the R-09HR to the top of the other box to
simplify carrying it around.

Flintstone

So when are you going to have a 09HR for me to buy from you or a mixpre?   

I love my h120 I bought from you, William!

Can't wait to get the 09HR

[digifish_music]

Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.

...

Flintstone

I'd agree with that. The internal pres do a very good job (from a hiss/noise perspective they are at first impression similar to the R44, something to find out). Remember that the ticking-clock test is a tough and revealing comparison. I am confident that for recording most bands, that you would not need anything more than an R09HR + Phantom-box + nice mics.

I will be making some field recordings of things at various levels over the next week or so. As I have an R09, R09HR, R44. All have internal mics so...

R09 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre

R09HR - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre

R44 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre

...would seem to be in line for direct comparison.

digifish

[illconditioned]

Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.

...

Flintstone

I'd agree with that. The internal pres do a very good job (from a hiss/noise perspective they are at first impression similar to the R44, something to find out). Remember that the ticking-clock test is a tough revealing and tough comparison. I am confident that for recording most bands, that you would not need anything more than an R09HR + Phantom-box + nice mics.

I will be making some field recordings of things at various levels over the next week or so. As I have an R09, R09HR, R44. All have internal mics so...

R09 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre

R09HR - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre

R44 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre

...would seem to be in line for direct comparison.

digifish

For "hot" mics, like Beyerdynamic MC930, R09 works great.

  Richard

[Carlos E. Martinez]

One thing I don't like about the R-09HR is the fact that it's using 1/8" jacks for mic and line in.

But it's in the same bunch as most other small recorders, except the Zoom H4 and the MT 1 and 2, which provide XLR or 1/4" jacks.

The new 09HR 1/8" jacks seem to be better than the 09's, but I wonder if they couldn't be upgraded to locking 1/8" types. I asked this very same question to Guysonic, but he hasn't yet answered it.

If you are not familiar with such connector, it's hasn't yet become a standard but it's used on some video cameras (Sony HDV F1) and on some wireless mics from Sony, Sennheiser and Comtek. If you have never seen it, the jack's collar is slightly longer and the corresponding plug has a cap that is also long and threads on the jack. By doing so it prevents one of the problems in 1/8" systems, which is the plug moving in the jack, which may cause noise and/or miscontact. It also prevents the connector from being accidentally unplugged.

Even if I am pretty sure most of you are aware of the 1/8" system maladies, I wonder how you deal with it. As these connectors become problematic after they take a lot of plugging/unplugging, the jack losing springiness, it's advisable to leave a short cable adaptor all the time. 

You implement a short cable, which you velcro to the back of the unit, with a 1/8" or 1/4" or XLR on the other end, which is the one you actually plug and unplug. When you are using tight fit 1/8" plugs, then these contact problems improve a lot. But I still think a locking 1/8" jack would improve things further.

What I don't know is if this locking jack will fit the 09HR box after it's soldered to the pcb. Warranty will also be void by doing this mod, unfortunately, if noticed. 

In any case this is a mod that could be implemented in most units having 1/8" jacks that are continuously plugged/unplugged.

[illconditioned]

One thing I don't like about the R-09HR is the fact that it's using 1/8" jacks for mic and line in.

But it's in the same bunch as most other small recorders, except the Zoom H4 and the MT 1 and 2, which provide XLR or 1/4" jacks.

The new 09HR 1/8" jacks seem to be better than the 09's, but I wonder if they couldn't be upgraded to locking 1/8" types. I asked this very same question to Guysonic, but he hasn't yet answered it.

If you are not familiar with such connector, it's hasn't yet become a standard but it's used on some video cameras (Sony HDV F1) and on some wireless mics from Sony, Sennheiser and Comtek. If you have never seen it, the jack's collar is slightly longer and the corresponding plug has a cap that is also long and threads on the jack. By doing so it prevents one of the problems in 1/8" systems, which is the plug moving in the jack, which may cause noise and/or miscontact. It also prevents the connector from being accidentally unplugged.

Even if I am pretty sure most of you are aware of the 1/8" system maladies, I wonder how you deal with it. As these connectors become problematic after they take a lot of plugging/unplugging, the jack losing springiness, it's advisable to leave a short cable adaptor all the time. 

You implement a short cable, which you velcro to the back of the unit, with a 1/8" or 1/4" or XLR on the other end, which is the one you actually plug and unplug. When you are using tight fit 1/8" plugs, then these contact problems improve a lot. But I still think a locking 1/8" jack would improve things further.

What I don't know is if this locking jack will fit the 09HR box after it's soldered to the pcb. Warranty will also be void by doing this mod, unfortunately, if noticed. 

In any case this is a mod that could be implemented in most units having 1/8" jacks that are continuously plugged/unplugged.

I've solved the jack problem on the R09 (original one) by putting a short (6") extender cable: right angle male plug into edirol (hot melt glue added to secure it), 6" cable, then female miniplug.  So, it is a little pigtail, one for headphone and one for mic in.  Saves wear and tear on the unit.  Someone (Chris Church, you listening?) should sell these.  Remember the hot melt glue!!!

  Richard

[Dede2002]

One thing I don't like about the R-09HR is the fact that it's using 1/8" jacks for mic and line in.

But it's in the same bunch as most other small recorders, except the Zoom H4 and the MT 1 and 2, which provide XLR or 1/4" jacks.

The new 09HR 1/8" jacks seem to be better than the 09's, but I wonder if they couldn't be upgraded to locking 1/8" types. I asked this very same question to Guysonic, but he hasn't yet answered it.

If you are not familiar with such connector, it's hasn't yet become a standard but it's used on some video cameras (Sony HDV F1) and on some wireless mics from Sony, Sennheiser and Comtek. If you have never seen it, the jack's collar is slightly longer and the corresponding plug has a cap that is also long and threads on the jack. By doing so it prevents one of the problems in 1/8" systems, which is the plug moving in the jack, which may cause noise and/or miscontact. It also prevents the connector from being accidentally unplugged.

Even if I am pretty sure most of you are aware of the 1/8" system maladies, I wonder how you deal with it. As these connectors become problematic after they take a lot of plugging/unplugging, the jack losing springiness, it's advisable to leave a short cable adaptor all the time. 

You implement a short cable, which you velcro to the back of the unit, with a 1/8" or 1/4" or XLR on the other end, which is the one you actually plug and unplug. When you are using tight fit 1/8" plugs, then these contact problems improve a lot. But I still think a locking 1/8" jack would improve things further.

What I don't know is if this locking jack will fit the 09HR box after it's soldered to the pcb. Warranty will also be void by doing this mod, unfortunately, if noticed. 

In any case this is a mod that could be implemented in most units having 1/8" jacks that are continuously plugged/unplugged.

I've solved the jack problem on the R09 (original one) by putting a short (6") extender cable: right angle male plug into edirol (hot melt glue added to secure it), 6" cable, then female miniplug.  So, it is a little pigtail, one for headphone and one for mic in.  Saves wear and tear on the unit.  Someone (Chris Church, you listening?) should sell these.  Remember the hot melt glue!!!

  Richard

I also use the same male-female short cable. Microphone Madness sell those as well.
But I'm not a brave soul, not hot melt glue for me, please

[boolz]

I'm getting ready to tape my second show ever, and I've got a question about setting levels. Since I'm using a R-09HR, I thought I'd ask it here to get gear specific answers. Hope that's OK.

Rest of gear:
mics: SP-CMC-22 (cardioids)
batt box: SP-SPSB-9 (with an in-line level control)

What I'm concerned about is this: when testing, I can't seem to do anything to get the thing to peak. My understanding is that I want to get things set just under peak and use that. Now maybe, with home audio equipment, as opposed to live concert, it won't ever be loud enough, but that's why I'm asking. Here's what I've tried:

1) the one show I recorded was an opera. I was in the first row, 10 feet from orchestra. With batt box line in at max and recorder at max, the level indicators were going up to about the 40 mark (is that -40dB?)

2)Testing at home, playing Keb Mo on my computer, with Bose speakers turned to their max volume, mics about 3 ft away, batt box level at max, same with edirol:

a) batt box, mic in: levels reach about 30-25
b) batt box, line in: levels reach about 35-30
c) no batt box, mic in, plug-in power on: levels reach about 12

Listening back with headphones on the edirol, the last one sounded the best.

So my question is this: is this normal? It seems odd to me that I'd need to set the Edirol at max (80) to basically recorder anything that is of sort of normal volume. Since I bought it to record loud shows and since boosting is always possible, I'm not terribly concerned. But I do want to understand my equipment and process, and, especially, find out if there's something I'm doing wrong.

Oh, all the back of the recorder buttons were off, except when I used the plug-in power mentioned above.

Thanks for any insights, advice, etc. Don't know how I'd function without this place.