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Offline Matt Quinn

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V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« on: August 19, 2008, 10:01:25 AM »
Hello all,

Couldn't decide if this belonged in Microphones or Preamps/AD, mods feel free to move if you want....

Anyway, I am getting a V3. I run the CMC4's, which run on parallel power:

http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/cmc.html

 "The CMC 4 works only with 12 Volt parallel powering"


Normally I use a pair of adapters (one for power, from 48v to 12v, and one for reversing polarity) to run the mics off of standard 48v power. So perusing the V3 manual this mornng, I notice this on page 3-

"Alternatively, the V3 can be configured to provide 12V Parallel power."

So of course, I am wondering if I can send the V3 in, get it set for 12v power, ditch the adapters, and maybe save some power in the process? Would I still need to use the polarity adapters even after setting the V3 for 12v?

Thanks all...
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Offline lino

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 10:48:00 AM »
...you just try and see, you can not hurt anything
but what do you mean by reverse polarity? you have regular CMC4`s right?
the schoeps with reversed polarity are marked with a "p" and I know of no CMC4"p"
or am I missing something here?

Offline Matt Quinn

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 10:53:52 AM »
...you just try and see, you can not hurt anything
but what do you mean by reverse polarity? you have regular CMC4`s right?
the schoeps with reversed polarity are marked with a "p" and I know of no CMC4"p"
or am I missing something here?


Well, there are 2 adapters for each mic. One is for power, and one reverses polarity. I'm not sure on specifics, I bought the adapters with the bodies, and just figured I'd never run across a box that could provide parallel power.

I believe they are 'regular'- oh, just found the original PM from ShawnF, who I bought them from:

"let me dig into this in detail...

The schoeps cmc4-uk is a very unique mic body because it requires one of the most unique forms of power of any mic currently available. It requires what is known as red-dot t-power.  Standard T-power sends 12V of current to the mics. Red dotted t-power is basically the same as standard t-power except the positive and negative signals are swapped. So the XLR barrels you are getting serve two different tasks. One pair of barrels (the phantom adapters) step 48v power down to 12v and the other pair (polarity cross adapters) swap the positive and negative signals which are sent on pins 2 and 3 of a standard XLR cable. The Phantom adapters are easy to tell apart from the polarity cross adapters. What you'll need to do is plug one phantom adapter into the polarity cross adapter and put it in the chain for one mic. then plug the other phantom adapter into the other polarity cross adapter and put them in the chain for the other mic.

The good news is that you won't blow anything up even if you don't use them. The mics won't work, but it won't break them. Now that being said It's still not a good idea to hook them up without the adapters. You'll see once you have them in your hands, but it's pretty self explanatory. I understand your questions though. I was totally confused when I bought them and the guy I bought them from didn't know a dambn thing about them so I had to read all kinds of crap on the internet and call schoeps retailers for information. It was not fun. Don't worry though I'm happy to answer any questions you have about them.

I'll ship the adapters in the correct configuration. all you'll need to do is put them on the end of your mic cables and plug the cables into the mics.

As far as the miodification I mentioned earilier goes... Basically all you need to do is open up the phantom adpaters and swap the wires for pins 2 and 3 and resolder them. Then you could remove the Polarity cross adapters from the chain. If you are decent with a soldering iron or you know anyone that is it would take less than 5 minutes to do. Truth be told it's about as simple an electronics job gets, but I just have no confidence in my abilities with a soldering iron. I'd highly recommend doing it though just to reduce the amount of crap in your signal chain (and crap you have to carry in your bag/deal with at a show)."
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Offline lino

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 11:05:37 AM »
if is a red dotted one then it has reveresed polarity indeed, same applies to red dodded sennheisers
but back to your question.. well ,then no, it will not work without the polarity cables

Offline Matt Quinn

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 11:15:58 AM »
Boo. I was all excited. I wonder if Grace can reverse the polarity at the factory too.
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Offline lino

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 11:20:44 AM »
how about you resolder the mic connector internally and get done with it?
2 minute job


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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 11:23:38 AM »
how about you resolder the mic connector internally and get done with it?
2 minute job




1) I have no idea how to solder.

2) Even if I did, I'd probably leave ANY fucking around with the internals of the mics to the factory.


That said- anyone know if this is a service the factory could provide, and how much it would cost?
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 12:19:00 PM »
Here's what I'd consider, if I didn't want to dork around with re-wiring the connector in the mic:

  • Have Grace enable 12V parallel power and leave P48 enabled.  That way you can choose which powering option you want with the jumpers.  If you sell the V3, you don't have to send it back to Grace to convert it back to P48, you just have to make sure you set the jumpers for P48.
  • Make / buy a pair of reversed polarity interconnects.  No more adapters = fewer potential points of failure.  Just make sure you label the interconnects so you don't use them with other mics.

$0.02

I think the real issue here is what do you need to do to the V3 (and the associated interconnects) so it will work with the mics, so I'm moving the thread to the Pre & ADC forum.
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Offline Matt Quinn

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 12:46:01 PM »
Here's what I'd consider, if I didn't want to dork around with re-wiring the connector in the mic:

  • Have Grace enable 12V parallel power and leave P48 enabled.  That way you can choose which powering option you want with the jumpers.  If you sell the V3, you don't have to send it back to Grace to convert it back to P48, you just have to make sure you set the jumpers for P48.
  • Make / buy a pair of reversed polarity interconnects.  No more adapters = fewer potential points of failure.  Just make sure you label the interconnects so you don't use them with other mics.

$0.02

I think the real issue here is what do you need to do to the V3 (and the associated interconnects) so it will work with the mics, so I'm moving the thread to the Pre & ADC forum.



Thanks Brian, +t (and Lino too!).

I did not realize you could leave both powering options intact & change them by the jumpers. Good to know. That said, I am not planning on running any other boxes any time soon (famous last words, I know), so I think I may just set it for 12v & if I ever decide to part with it, send it back to the factory. I will think about it before making a final decision though. 

Regarding the reverse polarity interconnects - I had no idea it was possible/ would work. I have no skill with soldering (as previously mentioned), so I'd have to buy. I assume any of the cable makin' gentleman here on the board would be capable of building them?

This is sweet. I will be psyched if I can dump the adapters from the chain. :) :) :)
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 12:54:42 PM »
I did not realize you could leave both powering options intact & change them by the jumpers. Good to know.

That's how I read the manual, anyway - and no point in jumpers to switch from 12V to P48 unless it's possible for both to be enabled.

That said, I am not planning on running any other boxes any time soon (famous last words, I know), so I think I may just set it for 12v & if I ever decide to part with it, send it back to the factory. I will think about it before making a final decision though.

Nothing to lose if both are enabled - I figure why limit yourself and/or future owners of the V3.

I assume any of the cable makin' gentleman here on the board would be capable of building them?

Yup.
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Offline lino

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 08:41:26 AM »
..not sure if the follow is allowed in this forum section but here it comes any way

I asked a "handy" friend about this and he says he can fix cables with reversed polarity AND P48-T12V power converter @ the labor cost of $25 each + parts (of your choice)

these cables will look like straight normal cables and will have the convertor electronics build inside the connectors

which means that you can omit the adaptor pieces and  leave your V3 as it is set at p48 , 

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 10:01:28 AM »
..not sure if the follow is allowed in this forum section but here it comes any way

I asked a "handy" friend about this and he says he can fix cables with reversed polarity AND P48-T12V power converter @ the labor cost of $25 each + parts (of your choice)

these cables will look like straight normal cables and will have the convertor electronics build inside the connectors

which means that you can omit the adaptor pieces and  leave your V3 as it is set at p48 , 



Hmmm. That sounds awfully tempting. Does your friend have an email address? I'd only need the cables to be about 1'-2'.


If you'd prefer to email me, it's mk4kc5cmc4@gmail.com. Thanks!
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2008, 04:27:14 PM »
polarity swap aside,why would you convert from 48 to 12v in the cable when you can easily jumper the v3 to 12v in like 5 minutes? am i missing something here?

..not sure if the follow is allowed in this forum section but here it comes any way

I asked a "handy" friend about this and he says he can fix cables with reversed polarity AND P48-T12V power converter @ the labor cost of $25 each + parts (of your choice)

these cables will look like straight normal cables and will have the convertor electronics build inside the connectors

which means that you can omit the adaptor pieces and  leave your V3 as it is set at p48 , 



Hmmm. That sounds awfully tempting. Does your friend have an email address? I'd only need the cables to be about 1'-2'.


If you'd prefer to email me, it's mk4kc5cmc4@gmail.com. Thanks!
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Offline Matt Quinn

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2008, 04:47:02 PM »

polarity swap aside,why would you convert from 48 to 12v in the cable when you can easily jumper the v3 to 12v in like 5 minutes? am i missing something here?



V3 has to go to the factory to be set up for 12v initially - after that it's just a matter of jumpers.

From the manual-

MICROPHONE POWER JUMPERS The V3 can supply +48V Phantom power as well as 12V Parallel power. Jumpers J1 and J5 select the mic power for channel 1. Jumpers J13 and J18 select the mic power for channel 2. The V3 ships from the factory with the jumpers in the +48V setting. To avoid possible microphone damage the V3 is shipped with the 12V setting disabled. The 12V setting must be enabled at the factory. Please contact us if you need 12V microphone power.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2008, 05:36:25 PM »
I think your best bet is to just contact Grace Design.  Their customer service is top notch, and even if you do have to send it in, it's always a very quick turn-around.  There's no sense in having the internal DC-DC converters convert the voltage up to 48V if you're only going to drop it down to 12V immediately.  it's inefficient and a waste of battery power.

 

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