Best line in recorder?

[flintstone]

"The Olympus LS-10 needs a very loud signal going line in..."

This remark reminds me that we have not mentioned the external pre-amp's
ability to boost the signal.  Some of the less expensive preamps don't boost
the signal very much.  

For example, the Chris Church ST-20B preamp has a max boost of 30 dB, and the
Sound Professionals SP-Preamp has a max 42 dB boost, according to their web pages.
Compare with the 66dB boost of the MixPre and the Aerco MP2's 70dB boost.  

When recording loud music, a preamp with lower boost is fine.  When recording
a quiet subject, it's useful to have extra preamp boost available, especially when
the preamp is not adding a lot of extra noise to the recording.

The output signal from the mics varies a lot between brands.  A mic with a relatively
low output (say, the Rode NT1a) will need more help from the preamp to make a recording
with good level. A mic with a hot output (the Sennheiser ME series comes to mind)
won't need to be boosted by the preamp as much.

Flintstone

[Church-Audio]

"The Olympus LS-10 needs a very loud signal going line in..."

This remark reminds me that we have not mentioned the external pre-amp's
ability to boost the signal.  Some of the less expensive preamps don't boost
the signal very much.  

For example, the Chris Church ST-20B preamp has a max boost of 30 dB, and the
Sound Professionals SP-Preamp has a max 42 dB boost, according to their web pages.
Compare with the 66dB boost of the MixPre and the Aerco MP2's 70dB boost.  

When recording loud music, a preamp with lower boost is fine.  When recording
a quiet subject, it's useful to have extra preamp boost available, especially when
the preamp is not adding a lot of extra noise to the recording.

The output signal from the mics varies a lot between brands.  A mic with a relatively
low output (say, the Rode NT1a) will need more help from the preamp to make a recording
with good level. A mic with a hot output (the Sennheiser ME series comes to mind)
won't need to be boosted by the preamp as much.

Flintstone

The most important thing to keep in mind is dont be fooled by large gain. Because some of the preamps EDIT ( OUT THERE ) have very bad specs when the gain gets above 25 db... Thats one of the reasons the CA-9100 is so popular its quiet part of that is because its also lower gain. I could make my 9100 do 50 db of gain but the signal to noise would be shit. So I prefer to not mislead people by selling a preamp with a larger gain and poor noise performance. The LS 10 is not suitable for recording quiet sources unless you have a very VERY quiet preamp in front of it. But for loud rock my preamp's and the LS10 would be fine or some of the other preamp mentioned. The ST-20B Has a self noise of around 89db at +30 db gain that's not bad but it does not have a lot of headroom at +30 it really should be used for acoustic performance its really hard to get huge gobs of gain and headroom with a single 9 volt battery with out adding noise.

[flintstone]

Chris, are you saying the Sound Devices MixPre or the Aerco MP2
have "very bad specs when the gain gets above 25 db?"

[Church-Audio]

Chris, are you saying the Sound Devices MixPre or the Aerco MP2
have "very bad specs when the gain gets above 25 db?"

I am not going to name names. I dont want to get into that. And thats not what my post was about most of the companies that spec gain settings and noise do it at a low gain setting once you set the gain to max and measure the noise some of the preamps out there dont stack up. Most of the preamps you mentioned are not in the category of misleading specs.

[digifish_music]

Chris, are you saying the Sound Devices MixPre or the Aerco MP2
have "very bad specs when the gain gets above 25 db?"

I am not going to name names. I dont want to get into that. And thats not what my post was about most of the companies that spec gain settings and noise do it at a low gain setting once you set the gain to max and measure the noise some of the preamps out there dont stack up.

Well by elimination the MixPre is out, as I own one an am amazed at how noise free and good it sounds around 55-60 dB gain...

[Justinasia]

Here's a link to an old Guysonic post that shows the line input noise with an external amp.   
I was surprised by the good performance of the Marantz PMD620 line input.

Anyone else have anything to say about the PMD620? I was just asking Doug Oade if he does any mods for the SOny PCM-D50 or the LS-10, and he says he doesn't because he much prefers the PMD620. If says that, I am guessing that it must be a great machine (modded that is).

[willyp523]

Here's a link to an old Guysonic post that shows the line input noise with an external amp.   
I was surprised by the good performance of the Marantz PMD620 line input.

Anyone else have anything to say about the PMD620? I was just asking Doug Oade if he does any mods for the SOny PCM-D50 or the LS-10, and he says he doesn't because he much prefers the PMD620. If says that, I am guessing that it must be a great machine (modded that is).

I have the PMD620 and was about to post in another thread that I don't understand how this unit doesn't get more consideration here at TS.

I've run it stealth and as a secondary open rig.  Small box, easy to use, one touch recording, good battery life, easy to read screen and a mic pre that so far has handled my tendency to be aggressive with the levels.  Records to affordable SD cards and Japanese made to boot.

Some samples...

stealth job, Elvis Costello ...Church cards ST-11, simple battery box->PMD620 mic in
http://tinyurl.com/bnmexe
This is at Dime so if you're not a member you may have trouble hearing it.

open gig, Ragbirds....Pelusos->ps2->Church 9000->PMD620 line in
http://www.archive.org/details/ragbirds2008-08-02.flac16


edit to say I have the stock unit

[Dede2002]

Here's a link to an old Guysonic post that shows the line input noise with an external amp.   
I was surprised by the good performance of the Marantz PMD620 line input.

Anyone else have anything to say about the PMD620? I was just asking Doug Oade if he does any mods for the SOny PCM-D50 or the LS-10, and he says he doesn't because he much prefers the PMD620. If says that, I am guessing that it must be a great machine (modded that is).

Maybe. I have one (like new, used 3 times only) and I don't like at all  . To my ears, it doesn't come even close to the R-09HR.

[Justinasia]

Maybe. I have one (like new, used 3 times only) and I don't like at all  . To my ears, it doesn't come even close to the R-09HR.

Anyone have an Oade modded one? (PMD620) I'm sure it will be a great improvement, but still would like to hear how it ends up comparing to the other machines, after being modded. Could it be the winner??

[aaronji]

Maybe. I have one (like new, used 3 times only) and I don't like at all  . To my ears, it doesn't come even close to the R-09HR.

Anyone have an Oade modded one? (PMD620) I'm sure it will be a great improvement, but still would like to hear how it ends up comparing to the other machines, after being modded. Could it be the winner??

I have one of the Oade 620's and I think it sounds great.  I am using it with DPA4060s, mic-in with a DPA battery box, and getting some nice results.  There is another user who is running some Schoeps > battery box > mic-in Oade 620, and he said he is getting some great results as well (search "schoeps CMR" and you can probably find it).  A third guy I know of here has one and said that he thought it sounded almost as good as his open rig (which his signature lists as an Oade R-44).

It has higher bias voltage than most of the other pocket recorders, so it will adequately power many small mics with no battery box...It is also easy to use, fairly well built, small, and good on batteries (I got 12.48 hours on a pair of Duracell 2650 mAh NiMHs).

The stock one sounds pretty good too, but not as good as the mod.

Just ignore Dede2002; he is sort of like the anti-PMD620 troll...Every time the thing is mentioned, he pops up with the same comment...I doubt he has ever even seen the Oade mod'ed version.  And, at one time or another, he seemed to think it sounded pretty good:

To my ears, the R-09 internal mics are better than the PMD 620's. But the Marantz has a better pre.

[Dede2002]

Maybe. I have one (like new, used 3 times only) and I don't like at all  . To my ears, it doesn't come even close to the R-09HR.

Anyone have an Oade modded one? (PMD620) I'm sure it will be a great improvement, but still would like to hear how it ends up comparing to the other machines, after being modded. Could it be the winner??

I have one of the Oade 620's and I think it sounds great.  I am using it with DPA4060s, mic-in with a DPA battery box, and getting some nice results.  There is another user who is running some Schoeps > battery box > mic-in Oade 620, and he said he is getting some great results as well (search "schoeps CMR" and you can probably find it).  A third guy I know of here has one and said that he thought it sounded almost as good as his open rig (which his signature lists as an Oade R-44).

It has higher bias voltage than most of the other pocket recorders, so it will adequately power many small mics with no battery box...It is also easy to use, fairly well built, small, and good on batteries (I got 12.48 hours on a pair of Duracell 2650 mAh NiMHs).

The stock one sounds pretty good too, but not as good as the mod.

Just ignore Dede2002; he is sort of like the anti-PMD620 troll...Every time the thing is mentioned, he pops up with the same comment...I doubt he has ever even seen the Oade mod'ed version.  And, at one time or another, he seemed to think it sounded pretty good:

To my ears, the R-09 internal mics are better than the PMD 620's. But the Marantz has a better pre.

Ignore me? Why don't you follow your own piece of advice? I have the same right to express my feelings as anyone around here. I don't like the 620. That makes me a troll? I need to like it because you do? Come on, do me a favor. Lots of people around here say they don't like this brand or that brand and still I respect their points. Even when they say bad things about stuff I own. You should do the same. As for asking people to ignore me, you should be the first one to do so. You pay too much attention to what I say  .

[aaronji]

So your experience with the Oade 620 is extensive?  You own one, I presume?  Hmmm, indeed...I said to ignore you because, as I said, you have probably never seen an Oade 620.  If I am wrong, my apologies.  Otherwise, how can you offer an informed opinion on something you have never used???

[Dede2002]

So your experience with the Oade 620 is extensive?  You own one, I presume?  Hmmm, indeed...I said to ignore you because, as I said, you have probably never seen an Oade 620.  If I am wrong, my apologies.  Otherwise, how can you offer an informed opinion on something you have never used???

Since you insist...
I've never ever said I own an Oade 620. Being such a carefull researcher of my posts, sir, could you please tell me when did I say such a thing? What I said was: I don't like the stock 620. English is not my primary language. But it's yours. Your reading skills should be better than mine, don't you think?

Justinasia said: 

"Anyone else have anything to say about the PMD620? I was just asking Doug Oade if he does any mods for the SOny PCM-D50 or the LS-10, and he says he doesn't because he much prefers the PMD620. If says that, I am guessing that it must be a great machine (modded that is)."

My response to his "great machine (modded that is)" guess was "maybe". Why? Because I've never set my eyes on one of those Oade units. He asked about the PMD 620 (not the Oade modded), and I gave him my point of view.
Take care.

[aaronji]

Well, I won't argue with you anymore, but I think justinasia's posts indicate pretty clearly that he was asking about the mod'ed version...Furthermore, the wording of your post seems to imply that you have the mod and don't like it...

And don't flatter yourself; I don't spend any time researching your posts...

[Dede2002]

Well, I won't argue with you anymore, but I think justinasia's posts indicate pretty clearly that he was asking about the mod'ed version...Furthermore, the wording of your post seems to imply that you have the mod and don't like it...

And don't flatter yourself; I don't spend any time researching your posts...

Really? 
One of your posts in this very thread quotes one of my messages from January 2008  . You have an astounding memory.
About the troll thing, well, this is your field, not mine.
Again, take care.