Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR

[bucsab12]

I think I may have been unclear on number 5... 

I understood that the signal cannot be altered before it enters the mics. I probably didn't explain myself well there (English is not my mother tongue).

When I said "amplify the signal that enters the mics" I meant the signal that is captured by the mics from the air that will be later amplified by the preamplifier before it goes on to the recorder.

When you say A/D converter do you mean Analog/Digital? Is that the conversion that happens when the signal enters the recorder after entering the mics and passing through the preamp or does it already happen at the preamp?

You wrote "Most digital recorders have clipping indicators for the digital to analog converter. The R09HR manual says the peak light is a clipping indicator not an preamp overload."
I can see how the signal can be too strong for the recorder to cope with  so the clipping light will start flashing. My question was about the clip light on the preamp. Belexes wrote:

I keep my pre on +20 (cranked all the way) and 40 on the HR.  Dial down on the 9100 if it's a very loud concert and watch the clip light to make certain you are not clipping at the pre stage.

So I did not understand how can you be clipping at the preamp stage because its only job is adding some gain to the signal. I thought the clipping could only happen at the recorder...

[digifish_music]

1. When you say A/D converter do you mean Analog/Digital? Is that the conversion that happens when the signal enters the recorder after entering the mics and passing through the preamp or does it already happen at the preamp?

2. I can see how the signal can be too strong for the recorder to cope with  so the clipping light will start flashing. My question was about the clip light on the preamp.

3. So I did not understand how can you be clipping at the preamp stage because its only job is adding some gain to the signal. I thought the clipping could only happen at the recorder...

1. Yes I mean the analog to digital converter this is the last stage in the signal chain.

Mic --> Preamp or BB --> Recorder preamp --> A/D converter --> Storage.

It is the part (chip) that converts the analog signal into a digital data stream that is saved to file.

2. Yes on a preamp any peak-light is a warning the maximum input voltage (which is what is being sensed) is reached.

3. Clipping a preamp is possible since it has an input (sensing circuit) and an output (amplifying circuit). It is the input that can be driven beyond its maximum input limits if the signal is too hot. The term used around here is 'brick walling'. For example if the maximum input voltage is +/- 1.5V and you feed it 2V it will clip/distort/brickwall.

digifish.

[bucsab12]

Thank you vey much digifish for the in depth response and your kind help. I really appreciate it.

[mfrench]

OK,.... Help me out here, please and thanks,...

Have they fixed the shoddy input ism with the new releases?
I'm not going to polish the turd of the broken input jack. Rather than that, I'll use the R09 as an mp3 deck from here out, and get a new recording unit - but not unless y'all tell me that it isn't fixed.

thanks again!

[su6oxone]

Have they fixed the shoddy input ism with the new releases?

The R-09HR's input jack is bolted to the circuit board unlike the R-09 where it was just glued on.  There's a picture somewhere in this thread that shows this.  Haven't heard of anyone with a R-09HR with the input jack failure that occurred with the R-09.

[rastasean]

Have they fixed the shoddy input ism with the new releases?

The R-09HR's input jack is bolted to the circuit board unlike the R-09 where it was just glued on.  There's a picture somewhere in this thread that shows this.  Haven't heard of anyone with a R-09HR with the input jack failure that occurred with the R-09.

Yeah, Mike, no issues with the input or output jacks on the device.

[Gutbucket]

Mike, anecdotal but I can tell you that when the jack on my original R-09 failed, Edirol repaired it and I epoxied the new board & jack to keep it from failing again.  I later bought a second original R-09 and never bothered to epoxy the jack since no one seemed to be reporting failure problems with those newer units.  Both of mine are holding up well 2-1/2 years later, but I haven't done the drop to concrete test. Shouldn't be a problem at all on the HR as noted.

I'll just add that I ran my external pre > mic-in (low gain) to the R-09 with the broken jack for about 5 months before I had a chance to send it in for repair.  I turned down the gain to compensate and was happy to find I didn't notice much if any additional noise. HR is quieter but that point is moot using an external preamp.

[mfrench]

thanks guys

unfortunately, I did do the concrete drop test (carpet covered). I had my rig set up as boundary layer, rear wall.  I was back there reaching for it to make an adjustment, when a guy I hadn't seen for a couple of years came up and gave me a friendly elbow to the ribs, with a "howdy-do neighbor, long time no see". I jerked my hand back down, and my finger hooked a cable, yanking the deck off his tall shelf (9').

[Gutbucket]

..tall shelf (9').

D'oh!

That's a big drop. I dropped one about 5' and shot out a foot to break the fall hacky-sac style, but instead kicked the recorder about 15' horizontally across the floor into a wall.  I was sure I'd smashed it but the corners of the well-worn, snug Body Glove case absorbed the impact.  Unit shut down, but booted back up just fine.  The situation was somewhat unusual in that I almost always have the patch cable threaded through the case to the jack, which anchors it to the recorder.  That keeps stress off the jack and has more than once acted as a safety leash, catching the recorder in mid-fall before it could fall far enough to hit the ground.

[mfrench]

I've always had my patch cable taped to the rear of the unit (which also provides me space for contact information for when I do stupid crap like leaving it in the venue). I also kept it within a BodyGlove neoprene case for its whole life.
At any rate, the MMA6000 output cable is about 8'6"; the patch cable, about 3" extended below the unit for about 8'9" of a 9' drop. The final 3" were accounted for by the mma6k cable coming to its end, the R09 being jerked upside down, and actually accelerating the inertia directly onto the input jack (the top RA patch cable, actually). This action was much like a bull-whip unfolding at its very end, and cracking the sound barrier!

(_8^(I) ....... D'oh!

[Gutbucket]

Conjures memories of watching documentary programs on the tribe where young coming-of-age men jump from the tall lashed platform with vines tied to their ankles- just long enough that they twist around at the end and 'barely' hit the ground with a bounce. 

[rastasean]

doing the hard work of cross posting for reference:

R-09HR System Update Version 2.0

[gmm6797]

seems nothing special for field recording

[digifish_music]

seems nothing special for field recording

You can now tell if the band is in tune

[bucsab12]

I was looking at the chart on this link that compares the different recorders and their specs:

http://www.avisoft.com/tutorial_field_recording.htm

It seems like the Olympus LS-10 and LS -11 are better or about the same as the R-09HR in every aspect so I wanted to ask if you agree with the info that is given in the chart and is there an edge for the Olympus over the Edirol?