Sony PCM-M10 (Part 4)

[Cheesecadet]

The clock issue has effected a very small number of people, maybe two dozen. If yours has the issue, contact B&H and tell them it is defective, they will issue an RMA and provide a shipping label for free. Its unfortunate that sony doesn't release firmware updates since this DOES seem to be an actual issue but perhaps if enough units are exchanged for another, some action will be taken.

It's odd and rather disappointing that Sony doesn't do firmware updates.  But anyway, I will probably get one of these if I can find a nice deal like B&H had awhile ago ($200 w/case).  Is this unit svelte enough to fit in a shirt breast pocket?

Fits in a shirt pocket easy...

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Yeah but for how long will the vendor exchange it?  We've read cases where the issue took a while to develop.

I think amazon is 30 days.  It'll be interesting to see what sony does/says in the cases where folks have sent them in.

[su6oxone]

Fits in a shirt pocket easy...

Excellent, thanks.  Now just need to find a good deal...

edit: any problems with class 2 sandisk 16gb m2/microsd cards?  class 4/6 unnecessary? 

[rastasean]

I use 16 gig class 2 card, sandisk without any issue.
just note that when you power the unit on, it reads the internal memory and then the external. its never fast enough when you're not ready but otherwise, its very quick.

[su6oxone]

I use 16 gig class 2 card, sandisk without any issue.
just note that when you power the unit on, it reads the internal memory and then the external. its never fast enough when you're not ready but otherwise, its very quick.

Cool, thanks.  What do you mean by it not being fast enough when you're not ready?  Do you mean it doesn't start recording prompty when you hit 'record' or... ?

[rastasean]

I was really being factitious. When you turn the recorder on, it takes 3-4 seconds or so to read the internal memory and external memory and you can't interrupt it during that time. I never have it on 3-4 seconds prior

The nice thing about the recorder is that if you leave it alone for 10 minutes (a time you can't change) and press record, it instantly wakes up and is ready to record as soon as you hit pause again to start recording.

[su6oxone]

Oh I see, thanks for the info.  With the reported battery life on the M10 and with a 8 or 16gb card, I imagine I'll just start recording well before the show starts and keep it in hold mode.

[earmonger]

I have had my PCM-M10 since last winter and have never had a clock problem.

[markrsmith]

ditto...

[Artstar]

Yeah but for how long will the vendor exchange it?  We've read cases where the issue took a while to develop.

And you're right. After just on 12 months (typical, outside of warranty), my clock has now started to lose it after a day in the drawer. I think I jinxed myself saying that I haven't had the problem.

That said, it's not a big deal but considering I noticed a few months ago it was actually running behind by an order of hours before losing time completely last week, I get the feeling that this could be an issue with a passive component gradually dying, perhaps a bad electrolytic cap gradually drying up.

I'll have to try and get my hands on a service manual for this to track down the clock circuitry, see how it's derived and what are the surrounding components.

[su6oxone]

I assume the M10 has consumer line inputs? 

[tgos3]

a correction on obtaining Sony service for the PCM-m10

Product support services had previously (incorrectly) referred us to the New Jersey repair center
When logging onto the Sony Professional Service website, it showed that Pro Audo goes to the LA Service Center, not NJ

I called the Teaneck, N.J.  center and after 8 minutes on hold, got to speak with a tech rep (not a technicican;  could not discuss technical questions, which the people at Product Operations Support Center will and can do)
He stated that the PCM-M10 should be sent to:

Sony Service Center
Sony Electronics Inc.
2706 Media Center Drive, Suite 130
LA, CA 90065

their phone number is (323) 352-5000
email:  LAService@am.sony.com

He said that including transcripts of our posts concerning the problem 'couldn't hurt'.  I will not include anyone's personal info if i do -- how do people feel about that?.
A RMA is not required, but he emailed me a Service Reqest Form. 
For those of you who are not sure about whether to get this handled now under warranty, consider the following ominous words from the request form:
"Flat Rate Repairs
• Certain DVCAM and small-format units are repaired for a fixed charge which includes Labor, Parts and Return
Shipping. (Applicable State Sales Tax is not included in this Flat Rate)"

for out of warranty repairs
"ESTIMATES
• WE WILL PROVIDE A DETAILED ESTIMATE FOR YOUR APPROVAL.
• THERE IS A DIAGNOSTIC CHARGE OF $135 PLUS RETURN SHIPPING, INSURANCE AND SALES TAX FOR DECLINED ESTIMATES."

considering the cost of the unit, the cost of a 'refused estimate' for out of warranty work will be more than the unit is worth.

In the past I have had Sony quote me out of warranty repair charges (for a so-called Pro Walkman -- HA!) that were more than the unit was worth.

I asked about their policy on repairing intermittent problems and was told 'in that case they leave it on the bench longer'.  Since our clock problems require human interaction (changes of battery, power state, USB communication, etc.) I'm not sure how that works out, and I wasn't talking to a tech.

Mine stopped giving problems after I found the receipt and got a box ready.......then it started again, so I guess it's off to sunny SoCal for an unknown period of time.  Usual Sony turnaround was stated as "7-10 working days" which is pretty standard for routine electronic repairs.  Intermittents take longer, of course.

I sure hope other people send their in as well, so Sony have to figure out a decent way to deal with this.
The Repair Request Form is not required, but 'might be helpful'.  If you want me to I will post it (28K pdf).  I didn't want to clutter the thread unless people want it.  It might save you a phone call or surfing for the right Sony service website.

T

[su6oxone]

He said that including transcripts of our posts concerning the problem 'couldn't hurt'.  I will not include anyone's personal info if i do -- how do people feel about that?.

I think if you remove the people's usernames (especially as some are people's real names) it would be anonymous enough for people.  But you're really planning on sending it in and paying almost the cost of the unit to have them maybe diagnose and fix the clock issue?  AFAIK, the clock issue has been annoying to people but hasn't interfered in anyway really with the recordings that people have made.  Well, if you do send it in, please share the findings (if they share them with you) here.

[willndmb]

you can include my info in anything you do
i don't see how it can hurt me in fact assist me if they find out there is an issue

[tgos3]

su6oxone said:
"But you're really planning on sending it in and paying almost the cost of the unit to have them maybe diagnose and fix the clock issue?  AFAIK, the clock issue has been annoying to people but hasn't interfered in anyway really with the recordings that people have made. "

I agree.  If it were out of warranty I would certainly not bother.

The initial 90 day warranty is "repair or replace", including parts and labor,  after that, the small print says they cover parts, but not labor for the rest of the warranty year.  I had not realized that, or I would have jumped on this sooner, since my unit did malfunction within the 90 day period.  The tech rep I spoke to was not able to tell me if I would be charged or not.  "I understand where you're coming from" was his reply to my statement that if they intend to charge me bench rates, it would be uneconomical to fix it.   He suggested I email the Service department directly and ask.

I would be.....ummmmmm......seriously disappointed  in Sony if they want to charge me for fixing an issue that should have been debugged before release.   I have an email into Sony LA Service right now, which they have read, but not yet replied to.

I mentioned in my email this thread (with URL), and the fact that multiple users have had the problem, but nobody has yet sent in a unit, so of course they have not had a chance to deal with it in any practical way.  If they know anything about making friends with high quality after market service, and the meaning of 'professional', they should treat us right.  If not, the net makes it easy for others to become aware of the issue, so they can decide for themselves how important it is in their choice of gear.

I'm quite happy with the recording quality of the unit for my purposes.  It won't record (i.e. initiate a file) unless the clock is set, so it seems unlikely one would 'miss' a recording due to unset clock.  Nobody has yet reported loss of clock while the unit is actually recording.  That's why I won't bother repairing it if they intend to charge me for within-warranty repair.  It's a relatively minor functional issue, but the way Sony handles it will determine if I am likely ever to buy another Sony product.   Many years ago when I was in the audio biz, I sold a lot of Sony gear. In those days it was well made, well designed, and well supported.  We now have an opportunity to see if this is still the case.

TG