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Author Topic: Tascam DR2d - part 2  (Read 82214 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #150 on: January 15, 2013, 10:11:50 AM »
On another subject, I just did a happy test. I got one of those 18,000mAh "Universal Powerbank" batteries to run my DR2d from the battery's USB port, and wondered what would happen if the external power supply was interrupted. Good news! Unplugging and replugging the power cable, the deck switched seamlessly to internal batteries and back.

This is the same for all the recorders I have experience with.  It would be highly unusual if the DR2d could not switch between external and internal power without problems.

As good practice, always keep charged AA's in the recorder when using an external battery. The AA's then act as a uninteruptible supply in case the connection to the external battery is momentarily disconnected for any reason.  They typically will not run down until the external supply is either disconnected or spent.
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Offline jagraham

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #151 on: January 15, 2013, 02:40:10 PM »
Took the DR-2d and STC-9200 out for the first run last night.  Recorded CA-14(cards) > STC-9200 > DR-2d.  Sure is going to be strange typing 9200 into my sources instead of 9000 which I've used all along.  Ran with the DR-2d in a pocket, so I was worried about overheating but everything went fine.  Really nice unit, much more durable than the 05 and 07, and especially the 03.  I particularly like how the design is more metal than plastic, which was my main gripe with the other Tascams.

The only issue I had was the levels were a little lower than I prefer.  There were 3 bands, one amplified solo acoustic set and 2 ska bands all performing in a GA theater, recording was about 10" back from stage on the floor, 7' ROC.  IMO a decent mix of stage sound and PA, the horns from the stage sound particularly good.  For the first 2 sets I had the tascam line in at 95 and the STC-9200 @ 100% with +10 gain.  The solo acoustic set came out real low, needing to be amplified 22.7db to get max levels in post.  The first ska band, still line in at 95 and +10 gain, came out a little louder but still needs to be amplified 18.7db to get to -.01db in post.  For the main set, I upped the Tascam input to 98 and change the STC-9200 to +15db gain.  That set only needs about 8.8db amplification so that is a little better.  I guess none of this is that bad because it's better to come out low than clipping and none of the sources are "dangerously low."  I was just expecting higher levels, even considered using the dual recording with the -6db pad for safety.  Would have felt pretty silly had I used that.  In these cases, should I have bumped the STC-9200 up to +30db instead and left the input at 95, or should I have left the gain on the STC at +15 and changed the Tascam input to 100?  +30 seems like a lot so I think I'll stick with +15 on the STC and 98 on the Tascam.  Of course in a boomy arena or dome shaped shed I might be a little more conservative.  Again, I'm glad it came out lower rather than clipping, after all that's why I run in 24bit.

Regarding the internals, I went to record a local bar band after that show and made a decent recording of that.  Only problem is the recording was on the verge of clipping with the volume set to 95.  Then I realized the Mic settings are supposed to be lower, 67 per this thread.  I don't plan on using them much if at all but I thought I might mention the importance of remembering the differences if using the internals.
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Offline LikeASong

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #152 on: January 15, 2013, 03:04:52 PM »
I've found the CA14s to be VERY quiet (even awfully quiet at times) with the 9100 so I think I know what you mean. Amplifying in post is never nice, but surely miles better than having a clipped/distorted recording ;) I would opt to get the 9200 levels a little higher and see if the +30 option gets you some clipping with the same input levels you already have (I doubt it, unless you tape at a much much louder concert/venue).
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #153 on: January 15, 2013, 03:10:40 PM »
Sounds like it went well. Congratulations!

Of course in a boomy arena or dome shaped shed I might be a little more conservative.

In regards to input level setting, venue size, boominess, echo, room geometry and configuration don't matter, only the peak sound pressure level at the recording position matters.  Some sources and events will be louder than others obviously, and some will have larger dynamic swings than others.  Generally the really loud amplified things have smaller variations in level compared to say recording less loud on-stage sources which can have huge transient peaks but a lower average / RMS level.

Quote
Regarding the internals, I went to record a local bar band after that show and made a decent recording of that.  Only problem is the recording was on the verge of clipping with the volume set to 95.  Then I realized the Mic settings are supposed to be lower, 67 per this thread.  I don't plan on using them much if at all but I thought I might mention the importance of remembering the differences if using the internals.

65-67 is the do not go below point for mic-input gain.  It's OK to go higher than that if necessary, at least as far as brick-walling is concerned.  The recommendation to keep it near that setting  (say around 70 or so) is mostly for users running an external source into the mic-input, not using the internal mics.  Set gain to however high you need it above 65-67 when using the internal mics, and remember that your can switch between high and low senitivity switch on the menu.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline rodeen

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #154 on: January 15, 2013, 03:44:56 PM »
65-67 is the do not go below point for mic-input gain.  It's OK to go higher than that if necessary, at least as far as brick-walling is concerned.  The recommendation to keep it near that setting  (say around 70 or so) is mostly for users running an external source into the mic-input, not using the internal mics.  Set gain to however high you need it above 65-67 when using the internal mics, and remember that your can switch between high and low senitivity switch on the menu.

I am confused what the sensitivity switch does when going mic in?  Is it like a coarse gain control and then the non-menu gain control act as a finer control?  The only time I think I'd use the mic in is if I were to try 4 channel and woud still be using an external pre.  Would I set the menu sensitivity to "low" and gain to the 65-67 range?

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #155 on: January 15, 2013, 04:54:56 PM »
I am confused what the sensitivity switch does when going mic in?  Is it like a coarse gain control and then the non-menu gain control act as a finer control?  The only time I think I'd use the mic in is if I were to try 4 channel and woud still be using an external pre.  Would I set the menu sensitivity to "low" and gain to the 65-67 range?

Yes and Yes.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Tisbo

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #156 on: January 18, 2013, 01:14:13 PM »
To follow up on my problems getting write error and "File Error" messages and lost files, I got a new SDHC card (SanDisk Ultra Class 10 16GB), did Full Format and did several long tests in stereo and dual stereo modes. No problems whatsoever. I hope that's that.

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #157 on: February 04, 2013, 03:03:13 PM »
anyone know what the SPL rating is for the internals? I can't find it anywhere on their website.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #158 on: February 04, 2013, 04:01:09 PM »
anyone know what the SPL rating is for the internals? I can't find it anywhere on their website.

I don't, but maybe some annecdotal reports will help- a friend used the internals on one of my DR2ds to record Lonnie Smith's trio recently.  Recorder was placed on the center front table about 8-10 feet from Allison Miller- a quite dynamic jazz drumer who was the loudest source by far that night.  I'd guess some of her drum transients were peaking ~120dB or so, but RMS was much lower.  I briefly heard the resulting recording and it sounded far better than I expected (and had no audible clipping or distortion) which motivated me to use them in another room back by the soundboard for a PA amplified gig which I didn't care to make more of an effort for..  guessing that was averaging about ~105dB RMS at that location.  Those are only approximate 'best-guess' SPLs, the mics did fine both nights.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline danny3

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #159 on: February 04, 2013, 06:45:16 PM »
At this point in my recording career I have only a basic understanding of the technical side of things like SPL or RMS, so no help from me. But I have resorted to using the internal mics on my DR-2d on quite a few occasions and been pleased with the results. I have used two of these recorders in a lot of configurations (and finally committed myself to taking notes at the show so I can better learn from my mistakes.)

It takes some trial and error figuring out where to set the mic input level when using the internals; for a loud source I use LOW, and MED in an acoustic setting. I generally always have to amplify my files in post, and I would assume that the absence of noise is a testament to the recorders preamps.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #160 on: February 04, 2013, 07:13:30 PM »
At this point in my recording career I have only a basic understanding of the technical side of things like SPL or RMS..

SPL = Sound Pressure Level, a measure of the level of sound in air.

Peak is the instantaneous or near instantaneous level, not-averaged over time.  Peak levels are always higher than RMS or average levels.

RMS = Root Mean Squared, which is the averaged level of a signal over a short time period.  RMS is an electrical domain measurement, but correlates pretty well with the sensation of loudness, which is a subjective experince of the brain's hearing mechanism and not directly mesurable.

An SPL meter usually has a switch to change between fast and slow response, which roughly corellates with peak and RMS sound levels.

In the example I gave above with the recorder placed near the drum kit, the individual drum and cymbal hits were very strong so peak levels were quite high though the average level was not very high.  In the second second situation with PA amplification and the recorder farther back in the room, the peaks were not nearly as high, but the average level signifacantly higher, so the sound was "more dense" and the music sounded louder, even though it had less dynamic range overall with lower peaks.

Hope that helps.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline danny3

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #161 on: February 04, 2013, 09:11:56 PM »
I was recently involved with a small venue that had noise complaint issues from neighbors and was required to take some readings. The owner thought my resident taper status qualified me in some way as the ‘sound guy’. The town subsequently took its own readings, and all worked out well thankfully; one of my favorites spots. Anyhow that experience roused my curiosity about such matters, and your explanation was just what I needed. I plan to add an SPL meter to my bag of tricks.
Always appreciate reading your posts.   Thanks, Dan.

Offline swordfish

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #162 on: February 05, 2013, 01:05:32 AM »
I've found the CA14s to be VERY quiet (even awfully quiet at times) with the 9100 so I think I know what you mean. Amplifying in post is never nice, but surely miles better than having a clipped/distorted recording ;) I would opt to get the 9200 levels a little higher and see if the +30 option gets you some clipping with the same input levels you already have (I doubt it, unless you tape at a much much louder concert/venue).

I can 2nd the above..that is why went from CA 9100 to CA 9200 to get the additional gain.....for quiter shows

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #163 on: February 05, 2013, 01:06:02 PM »
I've found the CA14s to be VERY quiet (even awfully quiet at times) with the 9100 so I think I know what you mean. Amplifying in post is never nice, but surely miles better than having a clipped/distorted recording ;) I would opt to get the 9200 levels a little higher and see if the +30 option gets you some clipping with the same input levels you already have (I doubt it, unless you tape at a much much louder concert/venue).

Does the 9200 have a +20db setting? I would stick with that setting for just about every situation if it were me :)
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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #164 on: February 05, 2013, 01:06:41 PM »
anyone know what the SPL rating is for the internals? I can't find it anywhere on their website.

You have a recent affection for cheap internal mics, ehh? ;D
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

 

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