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Author Topic: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)  (Read 64137 times)

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Online Gutbucket

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #390 on: December 19, 2018, 09:56:40 AM »
Either the signal was distorted prior to reaching the recorder, or it over-drove the analog input stage of the recorder prior to reaching the ADC (analog to digital converter). Metering and dual recording happen post-ADC.

What was your input setting level?
Has the "do no go below" input setting value been determined for this recorder yet? 

^ That's the setting below which the analog input stage will audibly distort or clip outright even though the meters do not peak at full scale (they may move "sluggishly" and "look less lively") typically referred to at TS as "brickwalling".  More precisely, that happens when the input signal is is hotter than what the recorder can accept, leading one to attempt to set the input value low enough to compensate, yet the input level adjustment happens after the distorting analog input buffer stage, so no matter how much one turns down the input level after that, the initial input stage is still overloaded. Turning it down further just reduces the level of the already distorted signal before it reaches the ADC.

If this was the problem, the only fix is to attenuate the level of the signal prior to it reaching the recorder.  Ask the sound guy to turn down the level of your feed, or introduce some type of attenuation in the signal path between the board and the recorder.

Once the "do not go below" level setting has been determined, and you find that an input signal is still clipping the meters with the input at that setting, you'll know that it will sound distorted regardless of your input level setting unless you can otherwise reduce level prior to the recorder.

Apologies if this has already been determined for the R-07.  I don't own one and haven't followed the thread closely.
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Offline edtyre

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #391 on: December 19, 2018, 10:31:24 AM »
Not following, but i'll add:
In my months of using the r-07 it works like a charm (actually best of small recorders imho) going mic in (meaning using a babynbox or something that typically plugs into the mic in)
Using it for the line in pre's is actually a little more tricky, for the loudest shows i go to, the r-07 needs attenuation, i had Nicky C build me a -18db mini to rca cable that does the trick.

Great little recorder, sounds great and has some nice features. People need to learn about their gear and work around the limitations.

Here's my rig in action

mk6 > babynbox > r-07
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/neil-young-2018-09-30-tower-theater-one-of-these-days
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 10:36:23 AM by edtyre »
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Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #392 on: December 19, 2018, 10:44:05 AM »
Thanks Gutbucket.

I think probably because I’ve taped before with exactly the same settings it was unfortunately a case of the sound guy running this too loud. I was able to turn down the signal coming in as low as possible but still no difference. Must’ve been coming in that way from the desk, sadly.
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Offline edtyre

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #393 on: December 19, 2018, 10:54:32 AM »
Thanks Gutbucket.

I think probably because I’ve taped before with exactly the same settings it was unfortunately a case of the sound guy running this too loud. I was able to turn down the signal coming in as low as possible but still no difference. Must’ve been coming in that way from the desk, sadly.

No he didn't. You need to run single track with attenuation.
If you go back to the beginning of this thread sos did some soundboard captures and he reported on that fact.
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Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #394 on: December 19, 2018, 12:04:08 PM »
No I think it was that - I was able to turn it down and turn down the signal coming in somewhat. No difference in terms of distortion. The source must’ve been coming from somewhere else. Doesn’t matter now though. I’ll certanly keep an eye on this in future though.
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Offline checht

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #395 on: December 19, 2018, 12:39:48 PM »
Some additional data points:
1. Running mk4 > IPA > R-07 at loud shows, usually end up setting input at 38-40. I have a zero gain IPA.
2. I often have to ask FOH to turn down matrix out when recording SBD with R-07. MP-6 has no issue with same output.
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Online Gutbucket

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #396 on: December 19, 2018, 02:13:41 PM »
I was able to turn it down and turn down the signal coming in somewhat. No difference in terms of distortion.

This behavior would be the same in both scenarios I describe above.  The only visual indication of the input stage of the recorder being overloaded while recording might be a subtle reduced "activity" of meter movement.  You can still turn it down more, lowering the indicated peak levels on the meters, but it will not prevent the distortion which has already occured.

A difficult to convey aspect of this is that a setting lower than the "do no go below" input setting can work without distortion if the input signal is low enough to not overload the input stage.  Yet such a setting would produce a recording with very low levels so there is no good reason to use such a setting.  The problem is when the input signal is high enough that you have to turn it down, and it overloads things prior to the "turn it down point".

Ed describes the correct way to run the recorder for a hot line-in signal, by reducing the level before it reaches the recorder, in his case using in-line attenuators.

Quote
The source must’ve been coming from somewhere else.
^
Not necessarily for the reason I describe above (this is tricky as described)

We generally go through this same learning curve at TS with each small recorder until the "don't go below" setting has been determined by practice.  Upon which it becomes general knowledge for that recorder. 


Source of distortion could very well could something prior to the recorder, but the sceario I describe has not been ruled out definitely.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Online rippleish20

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #397 on: December 19, 2018, 02:24:09 PM »
Some additional data points:
1. Running mk4 > IPA > R-07 at loud shows, usually end up setting input at 38-40. I have a zero gain IPA.
2. I often have to ask FOH to turn down matrix out when recording SBD with R-07. MP-6 has no issue with same output.

XLR/TRS Sound board outputs are usually Pro level (+4 dBu). The R-07 is a consumer device and expects consumer level (-10db). The Mixpre is pro level. If you are trying to record the board using the XLR/TRs outs you really need an attentuator or the FOH needs to give you a matrix with low gain, not the L/R mix. In many/most cases they will only give you a L/R main out so the outcome is not going to sound good. It doesnt matter what the R-07 levels are the incoming signal is too hot for the recorder)
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Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #398 on: December 23, 2018, 03:33:11 AM »
I’ve been playing around trying to find a ‘service’ menu on this, as was on the R-09HR and R-05. No luck so far. Would be nice to turn the lights off at least.
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Offline cleantone

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #399 on: December 31, 2018, 10:36:35 AM »
I used my R-07 for the first time last night. While I did get myself some AT853's this was with the built in mics. It was stand up comedy and I needed to be low key and haven't figured out stealth mounting yet. Anyway I'm writing because I recorded at 44/24 and found a glitchy dropout just 3 minutes into my recording. I need to listen to the rest to see if it happened more. The card was formatted and should definitely be fast enough. Sandisk 32GB class 10 I believe. Anyone else ever get glitches? I need to check firmware but regardless this is concerning.
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Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #400 on: December 31, 2018, 12:01:27 PM »
I used my R-07 for the first time last night. While I did get myself some AT853's this was with the built in mics. It was stand up comedy and I needed to be low key and haven't figured out stealth mounting yet. Anyway I'm writing because I recorded at 44/24 and found a glitchy dropout just 3 minutes into my recording. I need to listen to the rest to see if it happened more. The card was formatted and should definitely be fast enough. Sandisk 32GB class 10 I believe. Anyone else ever get glitches? I need to check firmware but regardless this is concerning.

Not had that but I did have a file lost prior to the firmware update in June.

It needs another software update in my opinion, to make it a winner - config menu for lights off and selectable line level.
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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #401 on: January 08, 2019, 09:32:32 AM »
I had an even worse experience today. I was filming a lecture and had put this on the podium. Long story short there was plenty of storage and battery but after more than an hour the deck had stopped recording, shut down, and all that remained was a corrupt 1.07GB WAV file. So this is 0 for 2 in reliability. WTF. I'm really the only one?
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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #402 on: January 08, 2019, 10:30:32 AM »
The SD card is suspect.  Contacts clean? Freshly formatted on the recorder?  Have you tried an alternate card?  Is there a list of known-good cards for this recorder?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #403 on: January 08, 2019, 10:42:36 AM »
That's where I'm leaning now. I've been trying to run some tests. It's a Sandisk 32GB Extreme Class 10 U3 which in my expereince have been excellent cards. That said I just checked firmware (latest) formatted the card and ran a test. It lasted about ten minutes or so. Once again corrupt WAV. I plugged it into a usb power supply and have it sitting upright testing again. THIS TIME I am actually seeing error messages about "slow sd card". This card came with the device I think. Maybe not. I'm testing at 44/24. A properly functioning card would have no issues with that. I think I did a two hour 24/96 recording with this card without issue. Either way it's looking like the card. So that's somewhat encouraging. It says Panasonic cards are not good with this recorder. This is a list.
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Re: New Roland R-07 (the best successor to Roland R-05 and Sony M10?)
« Reply #404 on: January 08, 2019, 11:10:05 AM »
That's where I'm leaning now. I've been trying to run some tests. It's a Sandisk 32GB Extreme Class 10 U3 which in my expereince have been excellent cards. That said I just checked firmware (latest) formatted the card and ran a test. It lasted about ten minutes or so. Once again corrupt WAV. I plugged it into a usb power supply and have it sitting upright testing again. THIS TIME I am actually seeing error messages about "slow sd card". This card came with the device I think. Maybe not. I'm testing at 44/24. A properly functioning card would have no issues with that. I think I did a two hour 24/96 recording with this card without issue. Either way it's looking like the card. So that's somewhat encouraging. It says Panasonic cards are not good with this recorder. This is a list.

I am pretty sure the R-07 came with a 8GB card. At any rate, what card are you testing? You refer to a Sandisk Extreme but then say "Panasonic cards are not good with this recorder".
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