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Author Topic: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”  (Read 3187 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2019, 08:29:53 PM »
Record the SBD on the same clock, then count samples, divide by sample rate, and multiply the time by the speed of sound to find the distance.

Don't forget latency through the digital mixing board, may be minor but should be subtracted for a truly accurate measure.
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Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2019, 09:26:04 PM »
Well, estimating distance is easy. Play organized foot ball, then get a job on a county survey crew and learn how to pace off 100 feet to within 2 feet.

That's how I do it, but frankly, as you've guessed, it's likely not really valuable number to anyone else. Where it might help someone else is if they need to roll tape from the same room and your pull sounds good to them. 

Mic pattern is the most easily repeatable aspect to this sport but even then, you'd have to run several setups, making small adjustments each time, before you'll hear real differences in spacial presentation. But that's the fun of the hobby  so to quote Yoda, "Don't question, do."
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Offline morst

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2019, 10:08:27 PM »
Record the SBD on the same clock, then count samples, divide by sample rate, and multiply the time by the speed of sound to find the distance.

Don't forget latency through the digital mixing board, may be minor but should be subtracted for a truly accurate measure.
Whoa! I was only thinking about counting in post, where everything is frozen in time already. But that's true. All digital gear must induce latency although for instance, the Dante network which is often used for digital audio signal routing usually runs at an expected latency of 1ms
https://www.audinate.com/faq-catagories/latency


"Latency should always be set as low as is possible. In a live sound system, transport latency less than 1ms is expected, because many other parts of the signal path (signal processors) also add to the overall system latency. "


at 48kHz, 1 ms is 480 samples, at 44.1 its 441. So at 1127 ft/sec, 1 ms is 1.127 feet!
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2019, 10:10:42 PM »
I don't even put that info in my TXT file!

I did start putting OTS or FOB when there are 2 independent sections because otherwise some people will ask in comments.  Obviously if you weren't at the show, or aren't familiar with the venue that doesn't help much.

I really should document that info (and a lot more info like mic configs) more, but I forget so often that I don't bother.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2019, 09:33:20 AM »
Strikes me that what gets noted sort of serves as a taper's personal mark in some ways.  I always chuckle when I see temperature and humidity noted in capnhook's txt files.

Main things I'm looking for are typically the gear used (almost always noted) and mic configuration (not consistently noted).
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Offline Moke

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2019, 10:50:18 AM »
S.W.A.G. for depth measurements. If I can, I count rows of seats, or perhaps unique "landmarks" as a more accurate measure.
I list everything, and take pictures, as i know for a fact, that I'll forget everything as soon as I don't.
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Offline morst

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2019, 03:08:57 PM »
Strikes me that what gets noted sort of serves as a taper's personal mark in some ways.  I always chuckle when I see temperature and humidity noted in capnhook's txt files.
That's a great idea since those directly affect the speed of sound.
How would you measure RH though, does hook bring a sling psychrometer to gigs?????
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2019, 04:00:10 PM »
These days he probably checks weather on his phone.

..But we both live in Florida, where long-time residents have been known to develop an uncannily accurate sense for humidity in addition to swimming-pool/ocean-water temperature!
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2019, 11:14:20 PM »
Pretty sure I read the trick was putting recorders with internals all around the venue and winging it.

But seriously, in my experience stealthing most cases when it's GA it's a rough estimate based on a variety of factors including crowd, proximity to center barriers (if any) and distance from stage, if stealthing with reserved seats it is just luck scoring the best possible tickets and in the majority of open taping situations the location is dictated by the venue since setting up in the "perfect" spot for taping is not going be allowed.  Bands with a taping section do not put tapers in the best spot for taping.   

Offline barrettphisher

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2019, 07:03:42 PM »
most tapers are too far back.

I agree with this.

It's unfortunately impossible to get the perfect answer to your question. Tapers have different taste. Personally I want to catch so much of the stacks direct sound as possible before the sound starts to bounce around or change tone for whatever reason. So, I'm always pretty close to the stacks. Left, right or center depends on the venue. Other tapers want a more of the natural room sound. They surely prefer to be further back. And it's of course also many other things that will affect your recording. Close your eyes and trust you ears is my recommendation.

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2020, 06:02:41 AM »
Another way to estimate distance is to get really good at disc golf.
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Offline Twenty8

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2020, 09:28:35 AM »
Another way to estimate distance is to get really good at disc golf.

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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2020, 08:58:48 PM »
Yes-edumacated guesstimating I would say. From years in marching band, I got a perspective as to what 100 yards and what 10 yards (30 feet) is like. From years doing sound then taping bands I got a different perspective with added guesstimating tools. Also, as someone said, the average depth of a row, foot space with chair, is about 3 feet.
additionally, some measure from stage, I guesstimeasure from stacks. (not always the same measurement)
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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2020, 06:02:17 AM »
I have used this app for years to find angles from my rig position.  It works very well.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appyhand.bearingcompass
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Offline Twenty8

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2020, 09:27:16 AM »
After figuring out distance and using the chart I have printed from the "Improved PAS" thread, I used this app for angle finding.
Super handy as it lets you take a picture for all your angle needs.
If I need PAS, or P.outside.the.S, its invaluable.  I use it anytime I am not using a Shapeways mount.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.protractor&hl=en_US
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 09:32:41 AM by Twenty8 »
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