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Author Topic: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming? part 2  (Read 3907 times)

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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming? part 2
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2020, 11:04:26 PM »
im not really sold on 32-bit yet personally, though i ran my zoom that way in the few shows i had it before the world went to poop

i do appreciate the handiness of the modern multichannels like the zooms and mixpres, but the bit depth doesnt seem to be the limiting factor in the all-in ones, where the analog input stage is more of a compromise - in our typical situation you could fix your levels to a conservative level and not worry about it to the same effect

even the best dedicated pre and AD combo (which beats the all-in-ones by up to 20 dB or more in THD+N) cant really take advantage of the resolution that 32-bit float offers.

i did get through a full 7.5 hours at 8x24/192 with the mixpre6-I on FW 7.10 with a sandisk 128GB extreme without a hiccup, but thats just rolling file without real inputs.

I havent used that card in any other tests (and this is a different mixpre than the first one i did all the tests on) - so theres some variables to sort out. It could very well be they stopped the error reporting/file crash behavior and samples indeed are being dropped

ideally id like to see 'stable' operation (100 hrs at max bitrate with sinewaves that can demonstrate no dropped samples)
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming? part 2
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2020, 10:11:38 AM »
[snip..] if dither is implemented correctly, could the series I at low level equal the performance of the series II at 32-bit (or perhaps be superior for those who choose to use series II in 24-bit?)

[snip..] the bit depth doesnt seem to be the limiting factor in the all-in ones, where the analog input stage is more of a compromise - in our typical situation you could fix your levels to a conservative level and not worry about it to the same effect

even the best dedicated pre and AD combo (which beats the all-in-ones by up to 20 dB or more in THD+N) cant really take advantage of the resolution that 32-bit float offers.

To my mind, this is the primary question which remains outstanding concerning 32-bit recording:  Is the only real practical difference for tapers that for any given pair of microphones, one must first determine the optimal input level setting when recording in 24 bit?   After which one is able to "forget about levels" when recording in either mode?  24-bit being "set-once-then-forget" as long as the microphones used do not change, while 32-bit allows one to skip that initial set-once part? 

[edited to emphasize the "taping" constraint on the dynamic range requirements]
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 10:16:37 AM by Gutbucket »
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Offline justink

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming? part 2
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2020, 07:33:46 PM »
I don't have any actual evidence, but I suspect a V3 at 24bit/48 that is absolutely dialed in running as hot as possible without clipping *might sound better than a MixPre II in 32bf/48, exported to 24/48.

But would the end result be THAT much better?  idk. 

What I do know is that hitting record on the 32bf/48 is much easier and less worry and sounds fantastic.

that would be a fun experiment.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 07:35:18 PM by justink »
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming? part 2
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2020, 08:02:03 PM »
I don't have any actual evidence, but I suspect a V3 at 24bit/48 that is absolutely dialed in running as hot as possible without clipping *might sound better than a MixPre II in 32bf/48, exported to 24/48.

But would the end result be THAT much better?  idk. 

'better' in out application? probably 'different'. but if you looking at a preamp as what comes in goes out, on a distortion basis

mixpre: 0.005% max (@1 kHz, 22-22 kHz BW, gain=20 dB, -10 dBu in)
that translates to about -86dB of harmonic distortion, with a relatively hot -10dBu input bumped to +10dBu

we dont really have a spec on mixpre in a high gain situation

V3 is 0.0011% (-99dB of harmonic distortion) gaining 40dB from -20dBU to +20 dBU
V3 is 0.0046% (-87dB) at an impressive 60dB gain from -40 to +20

some of the top-of-the-line preamps like a benchmark MPA1, are 0.0002 to 0.0004% (-108 to -112dB) in THD+N

but some people prefer distortion in their sound (transformer pres. etc)
and thats not to say the mixpre AD stage isnt optimized for a lower input level.

for the separate component preamp the goal is to try to get the signal as hot as possible to maximize the capabilities of the ADC

remember that the EIN of all these components are pretty fixed around -130dB. low level signals will always be at a disadvantage which can be overcome to an extent by putting a sensitive cap on a mic with high output (like a 4006 on an MMP-A)

in our application (micing PA in a room with a dynamic range of like 60 dB at best), all of this is relatively academic, and features win. As far as simplicity im pretty sur ei could go into any venue and set the V3 at 25dB of gain and walk out with a good recording (indistinguishable from a 32-bit recording) with levels peaking between -25 and -8 dBFS.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 11:34:56 PM by jerryfreak »
People whose posts I wont see:
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Offline justink

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Re: New Sound Devices MixPre II-series coming? part 2
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2020, 11:07:33 PM »
I wish i had a local venue that I could go in with my entire locker of gear and just play "Radiohead - The National Anthem" on repeat and switch out pres, mics, A/D's, locations....  Maybe throw in some Pink Floyd.  That would be fun.

Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

 

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