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Author Topic: ZOOM M2 M3 M4 MicTrak Recorders - 32 bit float dual ADC one-piece devices  (Read 84573 times)

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Offline Ozpeter

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I just came across this video where the sound comes from the Zoom M3 Mictrak device (it says).  If nothing else it's an ideal test of 32 bit float, as the location sound gets pretty loud aqnd peaky and personally it's the kind of unpredicatable scenario where level setting is best avoided.  I'd suggest watching the last five minutes or so to evaluate the sound - or of course watch the whole thing if interested!  It certainly seems to have no trouble with the high frequencies and the stereo image is good and wide.  The drums in use seem to be relatively small so the amount of LF on offer may have been a bit too modest to really test that aspect.

https://youtu.be/ihA2xNKDxPY?si=MDiEiL9iChOeDeFl

Offline Ozpeter

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I am resurrecting this thread to report that at last I have had a chance to use the Zoom M3 with its 32 bit float stereo sound in a real world scenario.  I attended a local festival which included market stalls, stage performances, food avenue, and fire sculpture, which began in mid afternoon and ended at 9pm.  I used a DJI Pocket 3 camera whose audio capabilities are pretty good for a tiny camera, but I attached with some difficulty the Zoom M3 in order to be able to forget about level setting.  Levels varied considerably, from scenes at some distance in the festival field, to standing right by the stage during live performances including a group of three drummers.

I realise that this is hardly a stealth device, but for occassions when stealth is not required, it's very light and simple to use.  In essence, it has a power button, a record toggle button, and that's about it.  Not even a display.

I was generally pleased with the sound quality, and the stereo image is excellent (and is recorded in both A/B and M/S formats so you can play with the width afterwards).  I was careful about how it was mounted to the video rig but I experienced no handling noise issues. 

Apart from the fiddly task of lining up the audio and video when editing, the biggest problem was dynamic range.  Most video that you see on YouTube has audio which has been captured via automatic gain control, and viewers would be quite disconcerted to hear a video with full dynamic range.  And let's face it, a substantial majority of viewers are using a phone where dynamic range means a lot of stuff being inaudible.  I decided that I would normalise the audio at the outset, clip by clip, but perhaps this was a mistake.  I then struggled to bring down the level of the performances, and bring up the level of the quiet bits, because the editing software I used didn't have enough control range for the task.  I then started over from scratch and used audio which I had pre-levelled using Reaper, although it was still a struggle.  I used a limiter VST to help matters, but I was careful that it was set only to catch transient peaks.

So you might wonder, what was the point of using 32 bit float audio and then squashing the dynamic range like that?  Well, the chief benefit was knowing that clipping at the outset would be very unlikely even close to the stage PA speakers.  At one point there is some clipping audible, but that could be heard with my own ears when recording, in other words, the canned music they used was clipped at the outset just for one item.  And I had a complete choice over final levels in the quietness of my 'studio' back home.

However, normalising 32 bit float audio from a live recording means that the most trivial and instantaneous peak may dictate the overall level of the result.  For instance, someone clapping enthusiastically near to the mic might cause a higher transient level than the performance audio.  In non 32 bit float recordings, if that got clipped it wouldn't matter much, because the transient was too short for the clip to be heard.   So the use of a limiter might actually be almost required in video post production, depending on the nature of the material.  But at least there's a choice, rather than being stuck with the wrong level at the outset.

Here's a link to the edited video - which is rather long but it has chapters which could enable you to skip to the drummers, where the audio is perhaps the most interesting.

https://youtu.be/KCT_izLIJqQ

Offline Ozpeter

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This morning was sunny and pleasantly warm with little wind, so I grabbed a video camera and the Zoom M2 MicTrak device and drove to a park about 15 minutes drive from my house at the edge of the Melbourne suburbs.  The last half of the drive is along single track dead straight roads where I passed I think one other vehicle coming the other way in that time.  In other words, once you get to the park there's no audible background suburban traffic rumble.  There's the odd small plane high overhead but that provides a bit of audible context.

Once there I was really struck by the silence.  I spend too much time in town!  The sound was punctuated by distant bird calls, and I walked down to the stream eventually and recorded the water, together with the sounds of a dog slurping it up and splashing around a bit.  The dog and its owner seemed to be the only other people in the whole park.

Normalising the files afterwards seemed to lift their level by about 30 to 40dB.  Before normalising they weren't much more than a thin line in the Audition display.  Despite the massive gain, I can't hear anything in the way of troublesome system noise.  I do hear the sounds of suburbia maybe 10km away!   The tiny sounds of nature are perfectly clear (and most of them I could not hear when I was at the location).  Even a few little flies buzzing around.  Frequency response seem well balanced.  Possibly I accidentally rolled off the top end a bit by covering the mic with two wind muffs just to be sure...

Really, the Zoom M2 seems to be a remarkably good device at the price.  Sure, there are all sorts of devices which not only have mics but have inputs too, but if you add the cost of the device and the cost of better-than-fitted mics, you don't end up with much of a bargain.  Nor do you end up with system with no dangling wires.  And as I've have said before - often! - the Zoom would not release a recorder with the guts of the F3, and with built in mics creating an end-to-end predefined system, if the mics were crap.  Otherwise it would be pointless.  IMHO.

Here's the result.  My YouTube channel is not monetized so I don't get any money from suggesting people might view it.

https://youtu.be/sP47wGM7jsU?si=YcYAXN0Y1yLXCUT9

Offline Niels

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Thanks Peter. I watched the first 10minutes.
That is impressive from a recorder from which you wouldn't expect much, judging from it's appearance  - at least in my opinion.

It could have been fun if you had also brought the H1 XLR and your Superlux - for comparison.

I am sure you are aware that the quietness of the scene you describe doesn't come across in the actual video.
The raised levels makes even the flies and the falling leafs sound deafeningly loud, but it is an excellent demonstration of the capabilities of the recorder/mics!
So much that I think I will get the M4 when I go to Japan in a few months, provided I can find confirmation that it uses the same microphones as the M2.
At the current price of 22,000 JPY, it crazy inexpensive for a 4ch recorder with XLR, seemingly good build-in mics and F3 preamps.
Zoom M4 Mictrak -> DPA4060 or MKH416
Roland R-07 -> FEL Communications Clippy EM172 Omnis or pair of RØDE Lavaliers.
iPhone 14 -> Shure MV88 or Sennheiser AMBEO Smart Headset

Offline Ozpeter

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Indeed, if I hadn't raised the levels bigtime then the video might have been mistaken for one without sound!  I am so unused to really quiet places...

Offline rastasean

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Ozpeter, thanks for the video and the recording with the M2. The M2 certainly hasn't been a recorder I've spent much time considering, but the audio in this video sounds quite nice.
The dog lapping up the water out of the lake/stream (?) sounded really clear. I know the camera you have probably has a wide angle lens, so it's not quite clear how far away you were.

With the gain being bumped up so much, how did you not have handling noise, especially when you were walking? Were the camera and M2 connected somehow or were you holding them in your hands?
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Offline Ozpeter

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Ozpeter, thanks for the video and the recording with the M2. The M2 certainly hasn't been a recorder I've spent much time considering, but the audio in this video sounds quite nice.
The dog lapping up the water out of the lake/stream (?) sounded really clear. I know the camera you have probably has a wide angle lens, so it's not quite clear how far away you were.

With the gain being bumped up so much, how did you not have handling noise, especially when you were walking? Were the camera and M2 connected somehow or were you holding them in your hands?

Cheers, glad you found it interesting.  Yes, I was surprised that the dog lapping was so clear.  I wouldn't care to estimate the distance - put it this way, the dog noise is clearer on the recording than it was with my own ears at the time! 

I was pretty careful about handling noise.  I used a springy mount for the mic which was on a compact rig I devised for it and the camera, which included an extra handle to help maintain grip without too much noise.  And I was careful!  The section of the video where the level was closest to "normal" was when I walked through that gate near the start, which made a very helpful high pitched squeak followed by a kind of ring which decayed to silence.  You may notice that there's almost no background ambience in that short clip, but that is simply because the gain was raised very little due to the loudness of the gate. 

Offline Niels

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The M4 price appears to be in free-fall in Japan - last week I picked one up for 14,900 yen in Tokyo (equivalent of US$ 105 at the current rate).
At that price it was impossible to resist.

I am guessing it is about to be discontinued.

I will be using it for field recording, video sound (it has build-in time code generator) and maybe a little open taping so the large somewhat awkward size will hopefully not be a big issue.

The M4 shares the very decent stereo mics of the M2, the qualities of which Ozpeter already demonstrated above.

It also allows for two XLR inputs utilising F series preamps, so they are expected to be good.

I did some close proximity recordings of very loud trains running over a metal bridge across Tama River (Kawazaki), both with the build in stereo mics and a DPA 4060, and both came out very good and detailed to my ears.
Also more subtle recordings of frogs along Jinzu River (Toyama) came out very good.

I plan occasionally to use the stereo 3.5mm input for my Clippys, but have not tested that combination yet.
According to the manual, the 3.5mm input utilise a dual ADC (although not F-series), but rather those used by the build in mics. I don't think that will be a problem as the ADC's seem to serve those mics very well.

The operation is very simple, and the start-up is super fast with a 128GB MicroSD card - much much faster than my Roland R-07 with a 32GB card!

Aside from failing to understand the overall design choices of the device itself, my only point of irritation so far is the many button presses required if I want to normalise a recording and export to 24bit in the device.
If you mostly do hour long taping, the above probably wouldn't be an issue, but I often do many short recordings and can't always wait until I have a PC available to bulk convert.
With that said, the actual processing of the relatively small files I have recorded so far has been very quick, approximately 3 sec to export and normalise a 3 minute recording - it is just all the menu navigation it takes to get there that irritates me.

Anyway, it is my understanding that some of the Zoom F-series recorders can't even normalise and export to 24bit, so I shouldn't complain, especially considering the current price of the M4.



« Last Edit: May 24, 2025, 11:58:12 AM by Niels »
Zoom M4 Mictrak -> DPA4060 or MKH416
Roland R-07 -> FEL Communications Clippy EM172 Omnis or pair of RØDE Lavaliers.
iPhone 14 -> Shure MV88 or Sennheiser AMBEO Smart Headset

Offline mepaca

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I got my m2 for $128 as a factory refurb on eBay. It was a brand new unit. For what it is it is pretty amazing. I would have probably killed for one 45 years ago. I have used it several times as a backup and once as a primary recorder for concerts. Many cheap microphone are lacking in bass but not this one. Dead quiet in self noise too.

Offline rastasean

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Niels, do you have any audio samples to share?

I remember ozpeter did an expensive recording session with several different recorders and the mictrak ones sounded good (to me). This is the post: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=206569.0

Good to hear your results are similar and you sure got a great price on the m4!

Does the mic cage act as any kind of windscreen? Lately it's in very windy in my city so recording the ambiences have been very difficult. Finding a windscreen to cover the m4 may be a challenge, but I didn't look up the specs of the size of it.
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Offline Niels

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Niels, do you have any audio samples to share?
I remember ozpeter did an expensive recording session with several different recorders and the mictrak ones sounded good (to me).

I'll see if I can pull some samples if I can find something that gives meaning out of context when I have time.
I am certainly not going through the massive effort of Ozpeter - but grateful he had the patience.

Does the mic cage act as any kind of windscreen? ... Finding a windscreen to cover the m4 may be a challenge, but I didn't look up the specs of the size of it.

A windscreen with a 1-1,5cm fur layer was included with the recorder. That is all I had and what I used in Japan.
It will not be sufficient in more windy situations, but seems adequate outside in light breezy situations.

On some review videos, I have seen the M4 grill covered with something that looked more like a hairless sock to my eyes, so I am not sure if Zoom has changed this included accessory during production. I'd imagine the sock I saw would work more like a pop filter than an actual windscreen.

I checked just now, and the Zoom WSU-1 Universal furry windscreen I had lying around fits perfectly over the grill/cage.
I have not tried it outside yet on the M4, but it has worked fine with other microphones as long as it can be mounted so it doesn't directly touch the microphones (which is no problem on the M4 due to the grill/cage).
https://zoomcorp.com/en/de/accessories/accessory-packs-and-windscreens/wsu-1/

Guttmann also sells German made dedicated windscreens for the M4. Their products usually have a good price/performance ratio (and they will custom make a screen if your mic/recorder isn't on the list).
https://microphone-windscreen.com/windscreens-for-audio-recorders/zoom/864/microphone-windscreen-for-zoom-m4-mictrak?c=23
Zoom M4 Mictrak -> DPA4060 or MKH416
Roland R-07 -> FEL Communications Clippy EM172 Omnis or pair of RØDE Lavaliers.
iPhone 14 -> Shure MV88 or Sennheiser AMBEO Smart Headset

Offline Niels

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M4 MicTrak Recorder and RF interference
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2025, 09:40:19 AM »
There are a few very critical high ranking M4 review videos on YouTube which demonstrates severe RF interference.

It has later been said that this was fixed by Zoom although I haven't seen reference to the source.
Therefore; I did of course check my M4 sample (SN: C87008689) to verify.

Recordings around a microwave, a TV set receiving Free to Air signals, an active WiFi access-point, a smartphone receiving a call - No interference at all was recorded.

Another critical point of a video was the alleged tight tolerances of the XLR connectors (a reviewer claimed he couldn't pull out his no-name XLR cables and had to dismantle the device).
I tried all my cables, Neutrix branded, non branded and some very cheap free-bees - 11 different cables.
None got stuck - or even had what I would call an overly tight fit.
Zoom M4 Mictrak -> DPA4060 or MKH416
Roland R-07 -> FEL Communications Clippy EM172 Omnis or pair of RØDE Lavaliers.
iPhone 14 -> Shure MV88 or Sennheiser AMBEO Smart Headset

Offline Ozpeter

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Because of that initial problem, indeed the first reviews were very critical - some reviewers seemed relish the chance to be very critical! - and those reviews are still online, although I think I have left comments in all of them to say that the problem was fixed.  The upside is that the recorders can now be bought quite often at really low prices.  But I do feel they should now have a good reputation.

Here is the notification from Zoom about the RF problem, in which they state the affected serial numbers.

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/news/mictrak_notice/

I'm very glad that yours is ok!   Mine too.  Thanks for putting that on record.  (pun not intended...)

Offline Ozpeter

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I chopped my circa 45 minute outdoor festival video using the Zoom M3 down to 4 minutes, designed to help interested people get some idea of what it sounds like. 

https://youtu.be/FBBiJ-qZwRo?si=8EbRLD7_t8feHy_p

My channel is not monetized so watching it won't make me any money!

Finding good examples of audio from this device is remarkably hard - many reviews don't include any samples, or the simply record passing trains.  At least in this video you hear crowds, amplifed music from a PA system (relevant to this forum), and amplified drummers.  Yes, I would love to record a symphony orchestra with it but those days seem to have gone...

Overall I can't believe that you could buy a better system for the current $199.99 price - you'd need a 32 bit float dual ADC F series recorder, plus a decent MS stereo shotgun mic plugged into it.  Probably twice the price at least?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2025, 06:19:03 AM by Ozpeter »

Offline ICatchSounds

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With the Zoom M4 under $150 on fleabay now I decided to give one a try. So far I am very happy I did.  No RF issues and much less handling noise than I expected.  As soon as I got it I started taking it apart. I needed to see what the mic setup was like under the cover. Not what I expected.  Here is a video if anyone cares. Zoom M4 onboard mics exposed.  I Will make a few more with the M4 soon.

 

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