Topic: DAT transfer equipment 2024

[breakonthru]

I bought one of these to transfer old recordings from a TCD-D8. I use it to connect directly to the coax digital input of a Microtrack II, works great.

https://www.core-sound.com/shop/7-pin

microtrack is not a robust option for DAT transfers. run a DAT a few times and look at the wavs in an editor you will find it drops samples/swaps channels

i mean it can be done, if you want to roll each tape 3 times and piece it together, but thats unnecessary work

I find it more reliable than trying to transfer to PC via a soundcard.

I have not had issues using microtrack for transfers from DAT, buit haven't used it in years, using Tascam DR100mklll now Bob

if you’re not actually looking at the data you are recording and just going by ear, you would probably never know.

[goodcooker]

I bought one of these to transfer old recordings from a TCD-D8. I use it to connect directly to the coax digital input of a Microtrack II, works great.

https://www.core-sound.com/shop/7-pin

microtrack is not a robust option for DAT transfers. run a DAT a few times and look at the wavs in an editor you will find it drops samples/swaps channels

i mean it can be done, if you want to roll each tape 3 times and piece it together, but thats unnecessary work

I find it more reliable than trying to transfer to PC via a soundcard.

I have not had issues using microtrack for transfers from DAT, buit haven't used it in years, using Tascam DR100mklll now Bob

if you’re not actually looking at the data you are recording and just going by ear, you would probably never know.

Right, because people are dealing with music - not a data lab. You rode this horse into the ground when you were your other profile.

[Scooter123]

+1

Must disagree with Jerry. 

Its music, not a wave form.  Music is generally judged by the sound to normal persons' ears, not how a wave file looks. 

[breakonthru]

Right, because people are dealing with music - not a data lab.

that would be a fine take if in fact the errors weren't audible, which often times they are. I'm personally not down with dropped samples and left and right channels swapping randomly in a good number of recordings, when its trivial to replace the weak link in the process. If I'm going to truly "archive" something that will become the standard that tens, hundreds, or possibly thousands of people are going to listen to down the line i want it to be faithful to the original recording, not an inferior copy with accumulated errors. Microtrack's flaws place it technically below the level of line out>line in to any of the common $50-$100 recorders with a line in minijack that works correctly, in regard to audible errors. Most people couldn't AB a D>A>D, where the errors the MT produce are noticeable

you do you tho... there is no "wrong" way to do anything, but also nothing wrong with people having their own standards of acceptability.   

[goodcooker]

 ^^^ correct on all points

After years of hearing you beat this topic into the ground I thought I would chime in and support the "other" point of view that a musical recording that sounds good is just fine and that it's bit perfect and/or having gone through some time consuming analysis is 100% not important.

[breakonthru]

I thought I would chime in and support the "other" point of view that a musical recording that sounds good is just fine and that it's bit perfect and/or having gone through some time consuming analysis is 100% not important.

correct and there are many people who keep their collections in mp3, make recordings with budget recorders with built-in electret mics (or phones), etc. , who are plenty happy with their collections. That shouldn't preclude us from discussing different ways to do things, and in fact discouraging others from discussion of improving technique and equipment would be somewhat antithetical to the purpose of the site, i reckon...

If anybody wants any help with validating their recording and transfer setups feel free to message me and i can walk you through it.

[Scooter123]

Jerry/Jamie, two of us tapers were selected by a national radio station to transfer a couple thousand reels, DATs and CDs into a hard drive in 2019.  These were live mobile truck recordings on 16 track machines (or later on ADATs), mixed to 2 track reels, then disseminated to the public via radio and television during weekly and monthly FM and TV programs in the 70's and 80's.  They were archived in 2 channel reels and DATs mainly, but someone in the 90s transferred some to CD. 

The DAT process took about two years using this protocol: (Tascam DA-20 or DA-30  > SPDIF > Tascam DR680 SD Card  > Computer Hard Drive > Glance at Wave file and Quick Spot Listen).  We were running 3-4 DATs at a time.  My way of doing things, which is similar to others with whom you disagree, was good enough for a national radio station.  A casual glance at the wave form will reveal obvious static and drop outs.  You can see them if you know what you are looking for.  Actually the spot listen was unnecessary (as the read errors were super obvious just looking at the wave file), but we did it anyway.  Many here on this board whom I know, received copies of the shows they were interested in, and they can vouch for this process. 

And to be brutally honest here after somewhere near 2,800 live shows transferred this exact way, we made only a half dozen glitchy transfers, easily caught.  In some instances, the DAT or CD has issues, and we had to go back to the 2 channel reels. 

Your way injects too many unnecessary steps into the process with near zero benefit.  Hell, I'd still be doing transfers if done your way. 

But ultimately its the listener's choice--Jerry/Jamie, if you like the slow, more technical way of transferring DATs and it works for you, then go for it.  The radio station we did the transfers for was thrilled with our method to this day. 

[daspyknows]

Yes, Scooter I can vouch for the process and results.  Jerry/Jamie should just stay on the Phish board with his nonsense rhetoric.  Will just leave it at that.

[goodcooker]

To maybe get this back on track - the OP wants to go toslink in to a computer -

I got a very well used but decently maintained Fostex D5 in 2020 that has taken every tape I've thrown at it since then. I had 2 Tascam DA30 that have worked sporadically but have been much more problematic since then. If you have a significant amount of tapes I'd look at getting a full size deck.

If you find that your D100 is being a pain after many years in storage the D5 is a good fix. It has toslink and AES XLR outputs. Shouldn't cost much more than getting your D100 serviced if you can even find someone to do it.

[Thelonious]

Thank you very much to everyone for the advice on this. I have confirmed that my D100 seems to be functioning and picked up a 7 pin cable from rocksuitcase (thank you!).

Between that and my R44, which has coax in, I think I have what I need to give this a go.

I have been lucky enough to do some travelling for shows but am back home for a while and will be able to test all of this out.

Should the D100 not be up to the task, I will definitely look at a D5.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice, it’s super helpful and greatly appreciated!

[Scooter123]

Toskink was a short lived consumer interface cable that was rarely used except for deck to deck transfers on a consumer level, and failed when even remotely bent.  Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you'll find a Toslink to USB cable or interface very easily.  AES was more common in professional decks, even those were short lived with the advent of SPDIF.

I have a little Hosa interface which converts AES to SPDIF, but what then?  I know of no SPDIF to USB interface. 

All these connections and interfaces and converters will add potential cumulative error. 

That's why I'd spring for a stand alone deck with a SPDIF output  to a recorder which has a SPDIF input and uses a SD card, like my DR680 which can be found fairly cheap these days.  If budget is an issue, post a borrow equipment thread.  I think you'll find many of us tapers loan gear or will convert small batches of DATs for free.

I think you're on the right track with a R44 which like a DR680 uses a SD Card, which then can be transferred to a hard drive. 

[jefflester]

Toskink was a short lived consumer interface cable that was rarely used except for deck to deck transfers on a consumer level, and failed when even remotely bent.  Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you'll find a Toslink to USB cable or interface very easily.  AES was more common in professional decks, even those were short lived with the advent of SPDIF.

Toslink is still a commonly used connector for optical digital cables. Nearly every A/V receiver has a Toslink port and many computer interfaces as well.

[Scooter123]

Interesting. I haven’t seen Toslink or FireWire connections in years, and assume they were obsolete with the advent of USB-C, which easily has the bandwidth to handle multi channels of digital feeds.

Apple’s Thunderbolt is pretty good too

The OP and I communicated off-line and he apparently has a Sony seven pin cable going to a coax adapter Which fits his our 44 machine into a SD card. That should work just fine 

[breakonthru]

with all respect to goodcooker's comments thread got derailed a bit, reminder of OP's original criteria

Hello,
My apologies for asking a question that no doubt has been answered many times in the distant past, however, I’m a bit behind the times.

Circa 2000 I recorded many jams with a friend on a Sony D100. I also recorded several concerts around the same time. I transferred many of these to digital by going D>A>D back in the day, however, I would like to recapture and master these recordings as the technology available to do so is vastly superior to what I had then. Additionally, I would strongly prefer to capture bit perfect.

I bought one of these to transfer old recordings from a TCD-D8. I use it to connect directly to the coax digital input of a Microtrack II, works great.

https://www.core-sound.com/shop/7-pin

microtrack is not a robust option for DAT transfers. run a DAT a few times and look at the wavs in an editor you will find it drops samples/swaps channels

i mean it can be done, if you want to roll each tape 3 times and piece it together, but thats unnecessary work

I find it more reliable than trying to transfer to PC via a soundcard.

I have not had issues using microtrack for transfers from DAT, buit haven't used it in years, using Tascam DR100mklll now Bob

if you’re not actually looking at the data you are recording and just going by ear, you would probably never know.

getting more in the weeds with this post, i have not found the microtrack to be a reliable bit-perfect interface under any situation. this is after owning the original and two of the MTII, each with various firmwares, so i feel i can dismiss it as an isolated hardware issue. If youre using the DR100 mkIII youre luckily on the right track as that deck is a rock on the digital input, despite its goofy non-standard input and ts easy-to-lose adapter cable

as far as "I find it more reliable than trying to transfer to PC via a soundcard.", there are a lot of different criteria there. the concept of "reliable" (the bar for which could be as low as "records a complete set without stopping" may be your bar... but thats far from bit perfect considering all the variables that can be introduiced in a soundcard transfer (with dropped samples and resampling being the most common). - At some point many soundcard manufacturers gave up the ghost and dumbed down their hardware to just resample anything so their customers wouldnt have to set sample rates to lock a signal. early creative soundcards were the first to do this and it stuck around for awhile. Long story short, not all computer interfaces are alike, some are great, some are fully unaccceptable, and any of them are subject to the variable of how the rest of the computer is set up reliably

Now that we have so many great standalone options that seems to be a better move to eliminate variables for those who dont wish to take the time to test. I have never seen a sony or a tascam with a digital in that wasnt bit perfect (that doesnt mean they dont exist).

some devices known to be absolutely not bit perfect on the digital input
any creative soundcard ive ever seen
microtrack
microtrackII
lectrosonics SPDR
marantz 661 mk III
optical input on mac*

*i cant vouch for *all* macs, it may be possible to set it up to be bit-perfect. i only have experience with looking at transfers done by a mac which were  certainly resampled

back to the OP's question, i would try the babyface pro under USB as opposed to optical in. RME's drivers are rock solid and provided you dont select it to resample in the RME control panel it should be bit accurate. Whenever ive used RME gear it wants you to match the sampling frequwncy and lock to the incoming clock

you can easily test the RME like this:

take a short wav, a few minutes long, on your mac.
record it loopback through the RME using the following two methods
usb out>usb in
usb out>optical in.

look at the resulting wavs (either cut them to the exact sample and run checksums on them or use some utility like EAC wave compare, or cut them to the same beginning sample, invert one and mix them, which should result in dead zeros. will take less than 10 minutes to verify your setup.

be alert when transferring old tapes that once in awhile you will come across a tape that sheds like heck and makes your d100 make audible errors. the drum is accessible in that unit and if you get yourself some head cleaner and the non-fiber shedding foam swabs and be gentle with it you should be able to clean it up as needed. if you have problematic tapes (ideally access to another deck which can sometimes do better at error correction) you can sometimes get a better pull from a different deck or piece it together. There is no rhyme or reason to me as to any deck being better than anotehr all the time, sometimes its just that decks particular head alignment in regard to the tape, or youre having a good mojo day. good luck!

[breakonthru]

To maybe get this back on track - the OP wants to go toslink in to a computer -

I got a very well used but decently maintained Fostex D5 in 2020 that has taken every tape I've thrown at it since then. I had 2 Tascam DA30 that have worked sporadically but have been much more problematic since then. If you have a significant amount of tapes I'd look at getting a full size deck.

If you find that your D100 is being a pain after many years in storage the D5 is a good fix. It has toslink and AES XLR outputs. Shouldn't cost much more than getting your D100 serviced if you can even find someone to do it.

i second all of this

good used decks are out there but nowadays you gotta hope they outlast your transfer project as service is expensive and hard to come by. as cooker mentioned you may not even find anyone to service that D100 on parts availability alone. i have a rack of decks including multiple panasonic 3700s, sony R500s and a fostex D5 if you get stuck i can roll some for you