Topic: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder.

[Kyle K]

Well. Bad news.

Just a thought.
Did you power it with batteries, USB-C or with an external power supply?

The sound reminds me of voltage/power regulation.
What if you try usb-c from different sources or a couple of different battery chemistries?

Yep good thought. I did remove the batteries and confirm same behavior with USBC power source. Given the identical result I ruled out the power source being the root.

[goodcooker]

This is without any mics connected? Good thing I won't be using it to record with nothing connected to it.

I may have missed something but did these mystery clicks happen with mics attached to the device the same way it did with nothing connected?

[Kyle K]

This is without any mics connected? Good thing I won't be using it to record with nothing connected to it.

I may have missed something but did these mystery clicks happen with mics attached to the device the same way it did with nothing connected?

Yes. I perceive snark, I don't really understand why. I was just trying to clearly communicate a potential issue with the device, and it's important to know if it's coming from the device, or in any way related to mics being attached. The fact that it is audible without anything else attached, as well as with mics attached, is important information.

I already posted an example of the raw audio of the issue alone, video showcasing the issue, described the reproduction steps and settings utilized, and an example of it audible while recording with mics.

Through this process determined that it should not be an issue for our purposes, as I stated. Still a potential issue if someone wants to record quiet sources with the 3.5mm input without a preamp.

[commongrounder]

One test I would try if I had one of the machines is recording with plug-in-power turned OFF. Mics plugged in would present close to the nominal expected input source impedance, even if they aren’t powered. Clean plug-in-power voltage is even more important on an unbalanced input than pure phantom voltage is on a balanced input. The other test I might try is with the input(s) shorted (also with P-i-P off) to see if the noise still presents. Periodic clicks or ticks are usually clock related leakage from the digital side to the analog side of the machine. Tascam incorporates shielding between these boards on even their most inexpensive recorder, so it could be a matter of a simple production fix if there’s a leak somewhere. This can hopefully be applied to existing machines if it’s deemed to be serious enough.

[Sebastian]

Kyle already stated that he tested it with an external battery box + mics and PIP off. (see this post)

Another thing that should be tested are different bit depths/sampling rates. Could be a timing issue with the ADC.

Also, Kyle, did you happen to test it with a line source (e.g. anything that's not a microphone)? Or even better: Just a single 50 - 300 Ω resistor across one channel and ground?

I have avoided using Bluetooth with my devices for fear of RFI, although more experienced folks here have reassured me that they have not encountered RFI with devices connected to their cell phones via Bluetooth.  However, this post suggests that RFI in this case may be an issue?   FWIW, I often use an F3 equipped with a XLR-minijack Y adapter with a nine volt SP battery box and CA-14 mics (with no power to the mics from the F3) and have never had an issue with clicks or RFI. 

I neither have an F3 nor this Tascam recorder, but my Sony PCM-A10 is emitting some sort of RFI when its NFC feature is enabled and it is placed directly near a not-so-well shielded cable and when gain is set really high. This is only NFC, though. Never had the same problem with pure Bluetooth (with Bluetooth on and NFC off). I guess NFC has a stronger signal or simply broadcasts at a different frequency. That's why I thought it would be wise to check if this is a problem with the Tascam unit. But given what Kyle reports, it doesn't seem to be a problem in his case as he has the same clicks with Bluetooth off.

[goodcooker]

SNIP < Yes. I perceive snark, I don't really understand why. I was just trying to clearly communicate a potential issue with the device, and it's important to know if it's coming from the device, or in any way related to mics being attached. The fact that it is audible without anything else attached, as well as with mics attached, is important information.> END SNIP

Relax, bro. This thread got really long really fast with several people chiming in I just asked for clarification since I have one of these on the way.

I didn't, nor do I have plans to, go through all the linked samples and videos and whatnot especially if they are recordings of nothing attached to record with. That's why I asked to clarify if this hiccup is with mics attached, without or both. If it's without I can disregard since it doesn't matter to me if the device has some kind of clicky sounds recording nothing - since I have no plans to record nothing.

Thanks for your early testing and reporting on this device.

[commongrounder]

Kyle already stated that he tested it with an external battery box + mics and PIP off. (see this post)

Another thing that should be tested are different bit depths/sampling rates. Could be a timing issue with the ADC.

Also, Kyle, did you happen to test it with a line source (e.g. anything that's not a microphone)? Or even better: Just a single 50 - 300 Ω resistor across one channel and ground?

Hi Sebastian. Yes I saw that post, but believe that is different than what I am suggesting since the external battery box is an unnecessary variable. Totally concur with your suggestions, though!

[Kyle K]

Periodic clicks or ticks are usually clock related leakage from the digital side to the analog side of the machine. Tascam incorporates shielding between these boards on even their most inexpensive recorder, so it could be a matter of a simple production fix if there’s a leak somewhere. This can hopefully be applied to existing machines if it’s deemed to be serious enough.

It is 100% this.

I can hear it shifting as I adjust the "DELAY" setting.

Tested all the ideas posted (24 bit, 96/192khz, PIP off with 3.5mm MIC plugged in), still present in all cases, only change was that the levels showed a bit higher with each tick @ 192 khz.

Curious how TASCAM will respond, I will attempt to clarify with them to see if this is expected from their end. So far they told me to update the firmware, and when I replied that I already did, they sent a link to update the firmware haha.

Again, just to clarify, I am no longer worried about this for real world applications -- I was far more concerned when I thought it started up out of nowhere, since it seemed like there was risk of it worsening.

At these levels, should never hear the internal clock on an actual tape.

Oh and @ rastasean, sorry for late response, yes, can independently adjust channel levels at all formats / bit depths.

[justme]

Periodic clicks or ticks are usually clock related leakage from the digital side to the analog side of the machine…

<humor>
Tascam do call the device for a Recoder in the metadata - so you might be onto something
</humor>
Producent: TASCAM PCM Recoder FR-AV2

[Kyle K]

Just realized another major negative for me. Unless I am missing something, there is no way to turn off the screen. You can turn off the "backlight", but even with that off, the screen still emits light. You can flip it over but then you run the risk accidentally depressing the button that stops recording.

Edit: wait, what the hell, the screen turns off after 30 seconds while recording in POWER SAVE mode. But you cannot turn on phantom power in this mode. I can't figure out a way to get screen off while recording + phantom power. Surely that can't be right!? Imagine some sort of fix will come in a firmware update unless I'm missing it.

[rastasean]

Do sound devices mxpre II recorders completely turn off the display during recording?

The disadvantage of color displays may just be a fact of life that they're 'always on'; I don't know. The most recent recorder I have is the Sony A10 and it doesn't have a color display , but is 'always on' during recording; no determinable light is emitted from it, though.

Another option, instead of turning it over, is to cover the display. Not necessarily practical, but maybe more realistic than turn it over on its face, where I would be concerned about scratching the display.

[TheJez]

You can turn off the "backlight”

Well, only when powering with batteries. When powering through usb-c, you can’t switch off the backlight 
This display attracting attention is a concern with me as well…

[Kyle K]

Yeah, covering screen with some gaffer's tape (or whatever) and controlling via the app is the way to go if you prefer discretion. Just so bizarre that there's a mode which CAN turn the screen off entirely as you'd like, but ONLY without running phantom power.

[TheJez]

Yeah, covering screen with some gaffer's tape (or whatever) and controlling via the app is the way to go if you prefer discretion. Just so bizarre that there's a mode which CAN turn the screen off entirely as you'd like, but ONLY without running phantom power.

Fortunately these kind of weird ‘features’ seem like things that could be fixed by firmware updates. Not sure how Tascam responds to user feedback…

[Niels]

It seems like the brave first movers are getting their decks and discovering quirks, faults or inconveniences that may or may not be resolved in future firmware updates.

We know for certain that many, if not most, products are released prematurely and fixed or improved with firmware updates later.

Therefore: A friendly suggestion to those who post their fault observations about their new deck:

-It would be very helpful if you include firmware version number when reporting an issue.

- If you have bluetooth connectivity issues, a smartphone brand and OS details could also be useful information.

- If a specific issue give reason to  suspect hardware issues, a serial number could also be relevant for future attempt to isolate a range of units with errors.


When including the FW number it may help to identify if a poster is struggling with issues that a more current FW version has resolved.

It will also help future readers of the early posts in this thread; it will be easier identify if a discussed problem may have been resolved through FW updates at the time in the future when reading the post.

These device threads often evolve to become so long that we don't read them end-to-end but access them selectively through search methods.
The FW version number would a convenient indicator for the reader to understand if they are reading a problem report from the early or late stages of the FW lifecycle.

For example; the Roland R-07 thread indicate a very flawed recorder (for our purposes) if you read reports in the early posts, but the R-07 evolved into a very capable unit in time when all FW updates were released - a FW version number here and there would ease the ability to navigate.
Aditionally; some reported consistent Bluetooth issues and others had no problem.
If reading through the entire thread you may extract that it seemed like iPhone users had few if any issues, while many with problems, if asked, seemed to be using Android. But most are statements like, "R-07 bluetooth sucks" vs. "I have no problems".
If more details were supplied, we may had been able to conclude if specific brands or models were more affected by connectivity problems.