Topic: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders

[Ozpeter]

It gets worse.  Tascam have responded to my YouTube comment question about dual A/D converters as follows -

"32-bit float recording is only possible with dual ADC. So, the DR-XP recorders feature dual ADC."

Meanwhile Zoom have specifically stated that only inputs 1 & 2 of the H4e use dual converters.  But the device only outputs 32 bit float. 

One or other company is seriously confused about their own products.   I have pointed out to Tascam that 'another manufacturer' claims 32 bit float output without using dual converters.  Let's see how they respond, if they do.

I do wonder whether the H4e uses dual converters for the built in mics of that device, or a single converter, given that the built in mics are not (I would say) inputs 1 & 2 - but that's another subject.

[dogmusic]

So I asked a similar question as Ozpeter, this time to Tascam USA customer service:

“ Does the new DR-07XP have dual ADC?”

And I received this answer:

“ Our engineering department has sent the following information...
 
DR-07XP/DR-05XP are SINGLE ADC.
 
Thank you for your interest in TASCAM products.”

Pretty much what everyone guessed. But kudos to Tascam for replying with the truth.

[dogmusic]

But it was disappointing. I was looking forward to an inexpensive handheld all-in-one 32-bit float DUAL ADC pocket recorder.

Maybe a 32-bit float DUAL ADC Tascam DR-100MKIV is in the works.

[Niels]

Maybe a 32-bit float DUAL ADC Tascam DR-100MKIV is in the works.

I think Tascam regards the two portacapture recorders successors of the DR-100 series.

[Ozpeter]

Dogmusic, indeed I got an identical response from them just now.  But I don't admire them for telling the truth.  They have marketed these devices without specifying the vital information as to whether the 32 bit float format used for output is any different from 24 bit, and this has confused not only potential purchasers but also their own marketing department, who like the majority of people involved in this field at the receiving end, assumed 32 bit float implies the use of dual (or more) converters to allow the storage of a wider dynamic range that 24 bit audio.  Now a small number of us know better.  I shall do what I can in the next few days to make this more widely known through a YouTube video but I just hope it gets more than 20 views!

[Ozpeter]

Meanwhile, on the Curtis Judd YouTube channel where he reviewed these devices, I  have gone on at some length about the whole subject of single vs dual converters, and Mr Judd has very kindly taken the trouble to respond to a number of my comments in some depth.  Worth a read.  He like me feels that manufacturers should come clean on the number of a/d converters that their 32 bit float devices use, to avoid customer confusion.

[Ozpeter]

I will paste here an exchange with a Tascam "Product Specialist" in the comments section of the YouTube video about the DR-07XP uploaded by the company.  It's staggering.  I doubt very much that I will ever purchase a Tascam product again if this is the state of the company.  Not that I was planning to.

-------------------------------------
@Ozpeter
3 days ago (edited)
You don't mention dual A/D converters for the 32 bit float audio.  Without dual converters, 24 bit audio is being written as-is into a 32 bit float container, so the dynamic range isn't being extended.  Can you comment?  Does it have dual converters but they are not mentioned perhaps?

@TASCAMUSA
2 days ago
32-bit float recording is only possible with dual ADC. So, the DR-XP recorders feature dual ADC.

@TASCAMUSA  Thanks. Your specs should claim it though as confusion is arising in this area due to another company saying that they use single converters. Somehow.

@TASCAMUSA  This whole matter of very disturbing. Tascam's marketing people, who presumably are the ones answering questions here, made the assumption that this device has a full implementation of 32 bit float recording using dual ADC's, thus gaining the benefit of that hitherto standard implementation. Purchasers and reviewers will be doing the same. But Tascam have now admitted to me that their engineering department state that DR-07XP/DR-05XP are SINGLE ADC.  This fact should be made clear in the published specifications for the device. Otherwise consumers are in danger of being misled. And that's not something that a reputable company like Tascam should be doing.

@Ozpeter   hello. This is not marketing - I'm the Product Specialist. My job is to know every TASCAM product inside and out, better than anybody else in the company. I'm curious as to who you spoke to? I can't seem to find any phone or email records of you reaching out to us?

I'm sure you know this already, but 32-bit float can only be achieved by using TWO ADC chips. There is literally no other way to do it. So, when I tell you this recorder has two ADC chips and records in 32-bit float, believe it.

@TASCAMUSA
4 hours ago
 @Ozpeter  Also, you don't have to copy and paste your responses to multiple videos. The one will do from here on out.

@Ozpeter
19 minutes ago
 @TASCAMUSA  Firstly, here is a paste of the email I received.  It is a matter of concern that Tascam employees cannot agree on this basic question. 

Custser (TASCAM USA)

6 Feb 2025, 19:39 GMT+1

Hello Peter,
 
Our engineering department has sent the following information...
 
DR-07XP/DR-05XP are SINGLE ADC.
 
 Thank you for your interest in TASCAM products."

Note the emphasis on the word 'single' which is pasted as-is from the email.  I look forward to your clarification.

As for whether a single ADC can create a 32 bit float file, of course it can.  And, according to your engineering department, it can.  And according to Zoom, it can (if you care to study the user manual for the Zoom H4essential).  Any value stored in 24 bits can be expressed in 32 bit float format without loss of data.  This is how a DAW takes a 16 bit recording and then processes it using 32 bits or more.   Use of dual, or more, ADCs enables a wider dynamic range to be stored as each 24 bit converter processes different levels of the audio.  This benefit is not obtained using a single converter.

Lastly, if there is confusion concerning the specification of two of your products, and you have uploaded separate videos about them, presumably on the assumption that purchasers may be interested in one product and not the other, then it is entirely appropriate to ask for clarification about the products, for the benefit of potential purchasers, on their respective videos.  However, I will restrict further comment to this video as I suspect that you might delete any further comments from me on the other video.

I look forward to your further comments on this matter, or comments from someone further up the company who might be in a position to address the confusion between the company's product specialist and the company's engineering department, which is not good for the company's reputation.  Neither is the tone of your responses."

================================
Let's see what their response is to that.  And if they start deleting stuff, too late, it's all here!

[Ozpeter]

Unless it's YouTube playing up - possible - it appears that they have deleted my most recent comment.  Whatever.  I am now dealing with the matter by email quoting the entire exchange (including my missing most recent comment) and asking why different branches of the company are giving different answers to a simple question.

[aaronji]

@TASCAMUSA
2 days ago
32-bit float recording is only possible with dual ADC. So, the DR-XP recorders feature dual ADC.

This is demonstrably false. See this link, for instance, from a pretty trustworthy source. Both of the examples given show the conversion of 20-bit samples to 32-bit floating point. It's just math...

[rastasean]

Thanks to everyone trying to get straight answers about this recorder. Peter, maybe you can share this thread with them and they can clear everything up here. Other manufactures have come here before.

It doesn't seem like most folks here are interested in this recorder. Too bad the company didn't (yet) come out with a Tascam DR-100mkIV or like product. Maybe their answer to that is the FR-AV2...

[dogmusic]

Maybe their answer to that is the FR-AV2...

No built-in mics. Clumsy shape for the pocket.

[Ozpeter]

Thanks to everyone trying to get straight answers about this recorder. Peter, maybe you can share this thread with them and they can clear everything up here. Other manufactures have come here before.

It doesn't seem like most folks here are interested in this recorder. Too bad the company didn't (yet) come out with a Tascam DR-100mkIV or like product. Maybe their answer to that is the FR-AV2...

I think I will wait for their next round of responses, after the weekend is over in the USA, and then see how to proceed from there.  As I think I said earlier (or not!), I am actively thinking of putting up a YouTube video explaining my concern that the whole 32 bit float thing is being taken advantage of (at the bottom of the market at least) by companies quietly saying nothing about the use, or not, of single converters.  Such converters won't of course lead to any degradation of the original 24 bit data, but they will not offer the usual benefits of increasing the dynamic range of audio converted to the digital domain.  Of course the whole 32 bit float thing is the subject of a lot of individual views, fine, but my concern is simply the dodgy marketing and the damage to the reputation of 32 bit float audio - for those who do find it beneficial.

As for lack of interest in this product - well, it's a fairly minor upgrade to the previous models, but it enables them to say "32 bit float".   There's a fair bit of choice in this bracket from eg, Zoom.  Sony, what are you doing next?  Maybe Tascam or Sony will come up withmic-equipped devices further up the cost and quality scale.  And with actual dual converters.  Personally I continue to plug the Zoom M2 (and M3) devices as being 32 bit float dual converter recorders equipped with decent mics (at the price) and able to handle large SPL (135db), but admittedly they are not suitable for stealth.  At all.

[Niels]

@Ozpeter

I kind of lost track. How was it, did your new Zoom H1 XLR have dual converters?

By the way. I notice that Zoom M4 MicTrack (the model with build in mics and 2xXLR) is less than 22,000 Yen on the Japanese price compare portal Kakaku.co.jp.

https://kakaku.com/item/K0001498244/

With the current Yen rate, that is amazingly low for a recorder that claims to share the Zoom F series preamps.

[Melanie]

How does the Portacapture X8 fit into this conversation? It has floating 32 bit as well. Melanie and I bought one in December so we can mix both soundboards and audience mics both live and in post productions where  mics and soundboards cannot be in the same locations. haven't been able to pull it off live but have synced and mixed one show (a Pink Floyd tribute band) and will be mixing a Los Lobos soundboard with Shoeps 4vs that we recorded last week with shoeps in the middle of venue with soundboard from back of facility (you know, where the "noisy "folks hang out). I'll be posting review of product as soon as we can pull off a mix right at the board instead of syncing Dr40  (mics) with DR100mklll (board feed) So far though we are really impressed with the X8. Bob

[Ozpeter]

@Ozpeter

I kind of lost track. How was it, did your new Zoom H1 XLR have dual converters?

By the way. I notice that Zoom M4 MicTrack (the model with build in mics and 2xXLR) is less than 22,000 Yen on the Japanese price compare portal Kakaku.co.jp.

https://kakaku.com/item/K0001498244/

With the current Yen rate, that is amazingly low for a recorder that claims to share the Zoom F series preamps.

Yes, the H1 XLR claims dual converters and I have no reason to doubt it.  It may be the cheapest way to record from a 3.5mm source to 32 bit float using dual converters. 

Indeed, the M4 could be good for some purposes if you don't mind the physical format.  The M series had a disasterous start as they (M2 and M4, maybe not M3) were released with a serious radio pickup fault and were canned in YouTube reviews, then withdrawn by the company.  The current ones have been fixed but the bad reviews are still up - possibly leading to price reductions.