Topic: Questions about '90s-era DAT recording resolutions

[HighStandDave]

Why was 32 kHz a thing?
Did DAT decks run at slower speeds for lower sample rates?
Also, was 32 kHz only paired up with a 12-bit resolution?

Yesterday, I downloaded U2's Dallas, TX PopMart stop at the Cotton Bowl from 1997-05-12, and the taper notes specifically state that a 32 kHz sample rate was used. They also mentioned that they brought in AKG 460/61s and somehow even managed to get a 6' stand into a stadium show. So if they were gonna go through all that hassle, and even set up a not-extremely-stealthy rig somewhere in the stands... I find myself wondering why such a low resolution was chosen? The recording is decent, but I wonder why at least 44.1 wasn't chosen? I'd never even heard of 32 kHz until yesterday. The show's runtime is 1h 55m, so were they trying to save space? What were common lengths of DATs in 1997?

[HighStandDave]

And there is one tape flip in the recording, at the beginning of the song "Please."

[TheJez]

Some DAT recorders support 'long play mode'. In this mode, the tape speed is halved, the audio is sampled at 32kHz and the samples are converted to12-bit non-linear values.
E.g. a 90 minute tape could then hold 180 minutes of audio. Of course it can only record sound frequencies up to (theoretically) 16kHz, and the audio is less accurately stored due to the 16-to-12 bit (and vice-versa during playback) conversion.
DAT-tapes were available in various lengths (15/30/60/90/120/even more), but longer lengths required thinner tape to make it still fit in the housing. Thinner tapes wear faster, break sooner etc, so typically 60/90 minute tapes were common. Long-play mode's main benefit was to prevent tape flips, which could be longish with DAT tapes (as unloading/loading tapes takes much longer than flipping analog cassette tapes). Or you might be able to record e.g. support + main act on one tape. As tapes could be quite expensive, for some there may have been a financial reason to go for long-play.
Quite funny that the U2 recording you mention still has a tape flip in it  . Maybe it wasn't a tape flip but they needed to replace the batteries . I've enjoyed recording to DAT myself (sometimes even in long-play mode) but I really liked it when I finally moved to solid state.

[al w.]

You can ask rocksuitcase himself  -> https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=205288.0

[Datfly]

6' stand could be the taper himself. DATS were also expensive in the beginning 20-30 each so LP ensured the whole show would be on one tape and not "waste" a small part of a new tape.

[tapeheadtoo]

Back in the 90's I deliberately chose long play (32khz) once or twice when I only had one DAT tape for a long show (either misplaced or forgot the second one).

[robgronotte]

I used LP mode almost all the time. I could definitely not hear the difference.

[rocksuitcase]

I am the taper of that show. I was new to DAT at that time, and in fact had borrowed that deck. I had no idea 32KHz was "long play" on that date. Of course, I learned about it later and most of my DATS were 16.44.1

Yes, many "Audio" DATS were 60 minutes, some were 90 minutes but a bit more expensive.

We did bring in a small aluminum 7' light stand like a lot of deadheads used. The 6' designation was specifically between us and the fans around us, we decided not to run higher.
As far as the "don't ask, don't tell" aspect of the U2 taping policy- we never got hassled by U2 security inside a venue aside from the one incident I referred to.
I am pretty sure they stopped that policy or go with venue policy these days.

What I find satisfying is that my notes are clear and concise about the recording. As an archivist I am glad this is out there.
May I ask which site had the DL you referred to?

[jefflester]

Pretty sure all lengths up to 120 min are the same tape thickness, just more on the reel. The 90m DDS data tapes that could run 3 hours were thinner. People certainly used those, but there was more risk. 3 hours was a pretty convenient length for Dead shows ya know.

There were two types of 32 kHz - the 12-bit LP mode but also 16-bit, depending on the deck. There was some sort of 32 kHz mode that could do 4-track, but that was on some very high end studio decks, not really applicable to tapers and traders.

[HighStandDave]

I am the taper of that show. I was new to DAT at that time, and in fact had borrowed that deck. I had no idea 32KHz was "long play" on that date. Of course, I learned about it later and most of my DATS were 16.44.1

Yes, many "Audio" DATS were 60 minutes, some were 90 minutes but a bit more expensive.

We did bring in a small aluminum 7' light stand like a lot of deadheads used. The 6' designation was specifically between us and the fans around us, we decided not to run higher.
As far as the "don't ask, don't tell" aspect of the U2 taping policy- we never got hassled by U2 security inside a venue aside from the one incident I referred to.
I am pretty sure they stopped that policy or go with venue policy these days.

What I find satisfying is that my notes are clear and concise about the recording. As an archivist I am glad this is out there.
May I ask which site had the DL you referred to?

Hey! Thanks for taping this show! Listened to it yesterday at the gym. It's hard to find a good PopMart AUD. The SBDs from that era just sound so unbelievably dry and harsh. Nice call on the 460s. This torrent was hosted on u2torrents, I downloaded it two days ago.

[rocksuitcase]

Pretty sure all lengths up to 120 min are the same tape thickness, just more on the reel. The 90m DDS data tapes that could run 3 hours were thinner. People certainly used those, but there was more risk. 3 hours was a pretty convenient length for Dead shows ya know.

There were two types of 32 kHz - the 12-bit LP mode but also 16-bit, depending on the deck. There was some sort of 32 kHz mode that could do 4-track, but that was on some very high end studio decks, not really applicable to tapers and traders.

This brings up memories of choosing between "audio" DATs and DDS DATs. The former were more expensive but the latter tended to have issues with loading/playing back in decks not the master deck. In my roughly 1,000 DATs thee is a mix of all of the above.

[rocksuitcase]

I am the taper of that show. I was new to DAT at that time, and in fact had borrowed that deck. I had no idea 32KHz was "long play" on that date. Of course, I learned about it later and most of my DATS were 16.44.1

Yes, many "Audio" DATS were 60 minutes, some were 90 minutes but a bit more expensive.

We did bring in a small aluminum 7' light stand like a lot of deadheads used. The 6' designation was specifically between us and the fans around us, we decided not to run higher.
As far as the "don't ask, don't tell" aspect of the U2 taping policy- we never got hassled by U2 security inside a venue aside from the one incident I referred to.
I am pretty sure they stopped that policy or go with venue policy these days.

What I find satisfying is that my notes are clear and concise about the recording. As an archivist I am glad this is out there.
May I ask which site had the DL you referred to?

Hey! Thanks for taping this show! Listened to it yesterday at the gym. It's hard to find a good PopMart AUD. The SBDs from that era just sound so unbelievably dry and harsh. Nice call on the 460s. This torrent was hosted on u2torrents, I downloaded it two days ago.

Thanks for replying to my question.
I definitely gave the digitized copies to them at the U2torrent site.   

[HighStandDave]

I am the taper of that show. I was new to DAT at that time, and in fact had borrowed that deck. I had no idea 32KHz was "long play" on that date. Of course, I learned about it later and most of my DATS were 16.44.1

Yes, many "Audio" DATS were 60 minutes, some were 90 minutes but a bit more expensive.

We did bring in a small aluminum 7' light stand like a lot of deadheads used. The 6' designation was specifically between us and the fans around us, we decided not to run higher.
As far as the "don't ask, don't tell" aspect of the U2 taping policy- we never got hassled by U2 security inside a venue aside from the one incident I referred to.
I am pretty sure they stopped that policy or go with venue policy these days.

What I find satisfying is that my notes are clear and concise about the recording. As an archivist I am glad this is out there.
May I ask which site had the DL you referred to?

Hey! Thanks for taping this show! Listened to it yesterday at the gym. It's hard to find a good PopMart AUD. The SBDs from that era just sound so unbelievably dry and harsh. Nice call on the 460s. This torrent was hosted on u2torrents, I downloaded it two days ago.

Thanks for replying to my question.
I definitely gave the digitized copies to them at the U2torrent site.   

If I may ask, where were you guys located in the venue? I'm under the impression you guys were picking up some of the delay towers. This is one of the better PopMart AUDs and I think XY was honestly one of the best solutions for taping that mono PA "pumpkin" they had held up from the arch. M/S would have also been kinda neat, FOB. I'll never know what taping back in the day was like, but from a historical POV, I like to see what those before me were up against. Thanks again.

[rocksuitcase]

I am the taper of that show. I was new to DAT at that time, and in fact had borrowed that deck. I had no idea 32KHz was "long play" on that date. Of course, I learned about it later and most of my DATS were 16.44.1

Yes, many "Audio" DATS were 60 minutes, some were 90 minutes but a bit more expensive.

We did bring in a small aluminum 7' light stand like a lot of deadheads used. The 6' designation was specifically between us and the fans around us, we decided not to run higher.
As far as the "don't ask, don't tell" aspect of the U2 taping policy- we never got hassled by U2 security inside a venue aside from the one incident I referred to.
I am pretty sure they stopped that policy or go with venue policy these days.

What I find satisfying is that my notes are clear and concise about the recording. As an archivist I am glad this is out there.
May I ask which site had the DL you referred to?

Hey! Thanks for taping this show! Listened to it yesterday at the gym. It's hard to find a good PopMart AUD. The SBDs from that era just sound so unbelievably dry and harsh. Nice call on the 460s. This torrent was hosted on u2torrents, I downloaded it two days ago.

Thanks for replying to my question.
I definitely gave the digitized copies to them at the U2torrent site.   

If I may ask, where were you guys located in the venue? I'm under the impression you guys were picking up some of the delay towers. This is one of the better PopMart AUDs and I think XY was honestly one of the best solutions for taping that mono PA "pumpkin" they had held up from the arch. M/S would have also been kinda neat, FOB. I'll never know what taping back in the day was like, but from a historical POV, I like to see what those before me were up against. Thanks again.

The biggest difference is the size of gear has gotten MUCH smaller. Even the DAT days were smaller gear footprint than cassette days.

For that show, picture a stadium. we were stage right in the 200's, lower bowl about 4 sections from the stage. We were basically aimed at the main Right PA tower.
I am sort of tall, 6 feet, and somehow I had a knack for sneaking mic stands past security. I went the gamut from total jedi walking it through and no one notices, to stashing inside the pants, to using it as a cane, to throwing it over the back fence of amphitheatre.

I am glad you are digging the recording.

[Ozpeter]

Wow.  Sneaking mic stands into a gig.  And here's me worrying about hiding wireless mics in my baseball cap!  Times have changed...