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Author Topic: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?  (Read 5607 times)

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Offline KLowe

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What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« on: April 29, 2005, 12:11:20 AM »
Hey good people of taper land.

I was trolling for gear today and found an AKG ck94 cap that records in a figure 8 pattern.  I looked at the diagram and could not figure out what the hell it was picking up.  would you aim this mic at a music source such as a speaker stack or aim it across a stage 90 degrees to the musicians? 

Anyone have a short-bus way of explaining the pickup pattern and use for a figure 8 mic cap?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin
(who is still looking for some ck93 caps)

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2005, 12:14:56 AM »
The figure-8 pattern is like two cardioids back to back - one lobe facing forward, one lobe facing backwards. 

The two most common configs for use with figure-8 patterns are Blumlein (2 x Figure-8 mics) and Mid-Side (1 x Figure-8, 1 x cardioid).  Check out DPA Microphones' Mic University for more info.

And when in question, first place to check (ahem!):  the Archive forum.  Like this post on mic polar patterns.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 12:16:42 AM by Brian Skalinder »
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Offline Teen Age Riot

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2005, 02:20:34 AM »
Moke, what kind of (t?) bar is that on the picture? I'm looking for something like that to run with my 414s...
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2005, 02:31:46 AM »
Quote from: moon-pix on April 29, 2005, 02:20:34 AM
Moke, what kind of (t?) bar is that on the picture? I'm looking for something like that to run with my 414s...

Can't answer that one - looks like Shure vert bar + something else - but with my 414s (merely the old ULS, not the hot-shit new XLS!) I can say that I've had success using a Shure vertical bar to mount the top mic, and a small clamp (like the one in the bottom of the pic below) to afix the bottom mic to the stand directly.  Works great for coincident configs.  Haven't run any near-coincident configs yet, though I do have the K&M t-bar if I want to do so.

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Offline 1st set only

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2005, 09:10:31 AM »
Quote from: moon-pix on April 29, 2005, 02:20:34 AM
Moke, what kind of (t?) bar is that on the picture? I'm looking for something like that to run with my 414s...

This will do the same
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=40106.0#bot
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Offline krebsy

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2005, 10:18:38 AM »
If you hold a 394 directly at the sound source with the rolloff switch on top of the body, it will pick up sound to the left and right of the capsule.  Holding a 391/393 in the same orientation would pick up sound if front of you.  Incidentally, a ck94 with an AK 40 in an onstage M/S arrangement is sick!!
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Offline Teen Age Riot

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2005, 01:20:31 PM »
Thanks for the info! :)
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2005, 02:39:37 PM »
Brian...
the Sabra T bar..the big one, kicks ass for the 414 in any config you can imagine, including spaced omnis and vertical stuff.
Its only like $40.  check out micsupply.com
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2005, 02:42:48 PM »
Quote from: mofrogeek on April 29, 2005, 12:11:20 AM

Anyone have a short-bus way of explaining the pickup pattern and use for a figure 8 mic cap?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin
(who is still looking for some ck93 caps)



one thing forgotten...
the rear lobe (or one side) is out of phase.  one is + and the other -.  that adds something to the soup.
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Offline krebsy

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2005, 03:08:20 PM »
Quote from: Nick's Picks on April 29, 2005, 02:42:48 PM
one thing forgotten...
the rear lobe (or one side) is out of phase.  one is + and the other -.  that adds something to the soup.

I guess it's the fact that the lobes of the fig. 8 are out of phase that makes M/S work. It's amazing to me to listen to the separate unmatrixed M/S channels, and hear how mono, and crappy they sound. As soon as they are mixed, a nice stereo image forms. Neat stuff!
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2005, 06:53:38 AM »
yea ...it is cool.
w/the soundfield, I used to be able to put in so much side info (on the fly) that the entire recording would almost sound OOP.  Made for an impressive sound stage !
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Offline musicsherlock

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2006, 03:52:41 PM »
Quote from: Nick's Picks on April 29, 2005, 02:42:48 PM
one thing forgotten...
the rear lobe (or one side) is out of phase.  one is + and the other -.  that adds something to the soup.

looking for some technical experience here...
I have an AKG stereo mic (C 522 ENG) and the cardioid caps can be adjusted to 180 deg alignment...this would simulate a Fig-8 pick-up pattern...however, one lobe would not be out of phase...as required in Nick's note above.

I have a 5 pin XLR out of the mic to a single 3 pin XLR to record both caps to the same track...could I invert the phase of that "stereo" track in post and achieve the same or similar result as a fig-8?

OR, should/could I have one phase inverted within the cable?
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Offline muj

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2006, 03:58:45 PM »
figure 8? sure symmetrical pattern ;D
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2006, 04:00:52 PM »
the 522...is that a mid side mic, or fixed XY?  I know i've seen one before.
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Offline musicsherlock

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Re: What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2006, 04:13:19 PM »
It's essentially an XY mic...but the caps can be adjusted so that they are back-to-back (180 degree alignment)...


there is also an MS version but that is not what I have.
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