What's the deal with figure 8 patterns?

[KLowe]

Hey good people of taper land.

I was trolling for gear today and found an AKG ck94 cap that records in a figure 8 pattern.  I looked at the diagram and could not figure out what the hell it was picking up.  would you aim this mic at a music source such as a speaker stack or aim it across a stage 90 degrees to the musicians? 

Anyone have a short-bus way of explaining the pickup pattern and use for a figure 8 mic cap?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin
(who is still looking for some ck93 caps)

[Brian Skalinder]

The figure-8 pattern is like two cardioids back to back - one lobe facing forward, one lobe facing backwards. 

The two most common configs for use with figure-8 patterns are Blumlein (2 x Figure-8 mics) and Mid-Side (1 x Figure-8, 1 x cardioid).  Check out DPA Microphones' Mic University for more info.

And when in question, first place to check (ahem!):  the Archive forum.  Like this post on mic polar patterns.

[Teen Age Riot]

Moke, what kind of (t?) bar is that on the picture? I'm looking for something like that to run with my 414s...

[Brian Skalinder]

Moke, what kind of (t?) bar is that on the picture? I'm looking for something like that to run with my 414s...

Can't answer that one - looks like Shure vert bar + something else - but with my 414s (merely the old ULS, not the hot-shit new XLS!) I can say that I've had success using a Shure vertical bar to mount the top mic, and a small clamp (like the one in the bottom of the pic below) to afix the bottom mic to the stand directly.  Works great for coincident configs.  Haven't run any near-coincident configs yet, though I do have the K&M t-bar if I want to do so.

[1st set only]

Moke, what kind of (t?) bar is that on the picture? I'm looking for something like that to run with my 414s...

This will do the same
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=40106.0#bot

[krebsy]

If you hold a 394 directly at the sound source with the rolloff switch on top of the body, it will pick up sound to the left and right of the capsule.  Holding a 391/393 in the same orientation would pick up sound if front of you.  Incidentally, a ck94 with an AK 40 in an onstage M/S arrangement is sick!!

[Teen Age Riot]

Thanks for the info!

[Nick's Picks]

Brian...
the Sabra T bar..the big one, kicks ass for the 414 in any config you can imagine, including spaced omnis and vertical stuff.
Its only like $40.  check out micsupply.com

[Nick's Picks]

Anyone have a short-bus way of explaining the pickup pattern and use for a figure 8 mic cap?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin
(who is still looking for some ck93 caps)

one thing forgotten...
the rear lobe (or one side) is out of phase.  one is + and the other -.  that adds something to the soup.

[krebsy]

one thing forgotten...
the rear lobe (or one side) is out of phase.  one is + and the other -.  that adds something to the soup.

I guess it's the fact that the lobes of the fig. 8 are out of phase that makes M/S work. It's amazing to me to listen to the separate unmatrixed M/S channels, and hear how mono, and crappy they sound. As soon as they are mixed, a nice stereo image forms. Neat stuff!

[Nick's Picks]

yea ...it is cool.
w/the soundfield, I used to be able to put in so much side info (on the fly) that the entire recording would almost sound OOP.  Made for an impressive sound stage !

[musicsherlock]

one thing forgotten...
the rear lobe (or one side) is out of phase.  one is + and the other -.  that adds something to the soup.

looking for some technical experience here...
I have an AKG stereo mic (C 522 ENG) and the cardioid caps can be adjusted to 180 deg alignment...this would simulate a Fig-8 pick-up pattern...however, one lobe would not be out of phase...as required in Nick's note above.

I have a 5 pin XLR out of the mic to a single 3 pin XLR to record both caps to the same track...could I invert the phase of that "stereo" track in post and achieve the same or similar result as a fig-8?

OR, should/could I have one phase inverted within the cable?

[muj]

figure 8? sure symmetrical pattern

[Nick's Picks]

the 522...is that a mid side mic, or fixed XY?  I know i've seen one before.

[musicsherlock]

It's essentially an XY mic...but the caps can be adjusted so that they are back-to-back (180 degree alignment)...


there is also an MS version but that is not what I have.