Topic: The AKG Actives Project

[leehookem]

Is there a TRUE waiting list for these if they work out?

-Kevin

I would think there would be an instant market for these cables, after all the 480 is "probably" the most widely used mid level mic among live music tapers and most of us would instantly lose the bodies if we could

I WANT MY BODIES!!!!! 

[thegreatgumbino]

Is there a TRUE waiting list for these if they work out?

-Kevin

I would think there would be an instant market for these cables, after all the 480 is "probably" the most widely used mid level mic among live music tapers and most of us would instantly lose the bodies if we could

I WANT MY BODIES!!!!! 

Me too...

[Jammin72]

Is there a TRUE waiting list for these if they work out?

-Kevin

I would think there would be an instant market for these cables, after all the 480 is "probably" the most widely used mid level mic among live music tapers and most of us would instantly lose the bodies if we could

I would definately want the option of keeping the bodies in the chain.  But at this point... whatever can work.

I WANT MY BODIES!!!!! 

Me too...

[willndmb]

bodies or no bodies for me depends on sound
if a active set up came out but didn't have the same sound i would prob stick to the bodies - thats why i like the idea of having a active cable but still needing the bodies
if you had a active cable that ran into a box the sound might be better/worse/same but with the bodies you know exactly what you are getting

[poorlyconditioned]

bodies or no bodies for me depends on sound
if a active set up came out but didn't have the same sound i would prob stick to the bodies - thats why i like the idea of having a active cable but still needing the bodies
if you had a active cable that ran into a box the sound might be better/worse/same but with the bodies you know exactly what you are getting

I am making a setup *without* bodies.  I don't have bodies, and I don't want to pay for them!

  Richard

[Chuck]

Are the diaphragms/ capsules for microphones, like the C-480's, all made from a few manufacturers, like the electret capsules 
Does AKG make their own capsules and or microphone diaphragms?

[poorlyconditioned]

Are the diaphragms/ capsules for microphones, like the C-480's, all made from a few manufacturers, like the electret capsules 
Does AKG make their own capsules and or microphone diaphragms?

As far as I know, the big manufacturers (Neumann, Scheops, AKG, etc) all make their own capsules.  Some manufacturers, like AT may have things made for them, and only them.

If you look at some cheaper stuff, like Studio Projects, ADK, Rode, etc, those are made in China, for a number of people.  The key with these is quality control, and one expects those bigger companies to have it.  Not the cheaper ones like Apex, Behringer, etc.  Those are probably the same Chinese mics, but a crap shoot.

As for electrets, those are made by many companies, like Primo, Transsound, and many many others.

This is all discussed on the Yahoo group "micbuilders".  Both circuits and sources can be found there.  I've learnt most of my stuff (3-wire, FET circuits, etc) over there too...

  Richard

[Todd R]

Richard, excellent work!  Things are looking really close, it'll be nice not to be the only one (?) running ck6x caps with active cables.  We need more AKG stealth/fob/low-pro rigs going.

If your design is body-less, are you making some kind of gain available in your battery box?  If not, does that mean these are pretty low output, or is the output level/sensitivity pretty typical?

bodies or no bodies for me depends on sound
if a active set up came out but didn't have the same sound i would prob stick to the bodies - thats why i like the idea of having a active cable but still needing the bodies
if you had a active cable that ran into a box the sound might be better/worse/same but with the bodies you know exactly what you are getting

I really think people will find that no matter what -- actives without bodies or using the 480 bodies -- there will be a change in sound, however subtle.  Neumann claims to use the same capsules and electronics in the 184s as in the 140s, presumably meaning the same microphone amplifier circuit.  But the circuit design changes needed to make the 140s allow active cables leads to subtle, but noticeable differences in the sound between the two.

Even using the 480 bodies, by adding the electronics that are part of the actives, the sound of the new system is likely to change somewhat.  The capsules themselves are responsible for a lot of the AKG sound, so that will remain.  But I'd imagine a "480" active system, bodies or not, will not sound exactly the same.  My JKLabs ECMS system definitely sounds a bit different than the 480 system it replaced (though it doesn't use 480 bodies, so those differences might be more pronounced).

[Chuck]

I've heard enough of Todds recordings to know that they have that AKG sound. We've never been able to do a proper comparision, but I do know that the active set-up he has sounds very good.

[BJ]

Richard, excellent work!  Things are looking really close, it'll be nice not to be the only one (?) running ck6x caps with active cables.  We need more AKG stealth/fob/low-pro rigs going.

If your design is body-less, are you making some kind of gain available in your battery box?  If not, does that mean these are pretty low output, or is the output level/sensitivity pretty typical?

does this mean yours has gain Todd?  just intersted as I have never seen one...

from my earlier questions posted, and Berg's reply...I believe he said the battery provides the power, but the gain is still applied through the preamp. From a "I have never stealthed" perspective....is this typical? 

thanx for this thread!!!  so much learning..so little time

[Todd R]

I really don't know if my ECMS box has any gain or not.  It does not have gain in our traditional sense of being a mic pre-amp.  And I'll preface that I really don't know anything about mic design, but I thought that mic bodies provided an initial amount of gain for the mic capsules.  Some manufacturers refer to their mic bodies as the mic pre-amps. 

This is not the same terminology we use when we talk about external mic preamps, which are used to bring mic level signals up to line level for use with A/Ds, etc.  I _think_ that mic bodies generally provide some level of gain to bring the signal coming from the capsule up to typical mic output levels.

That said, my ECMS box+active cables+capsules has about the same "mic" output as my 480/ck6x mic set up did.  That's why I was asking Richard whether there is any level of gain in his system.  I know he isn't planning gain in the traditional mic preamp to line level sense, but I was curious if there was no gain whatsoever whether that means the mic output is unusually low.

[poorlyconditioned]

I really don't know if my ECMS box has any gain or not.  It does not have gain in our traditional sense of being a mic pre-amp.  And I'll preface that I really don't know anything about mic design, but I thought that mic bodies provided an initial amount of gain for the mic capsules.  Some manufacturers refer to their mic bodies as the mic pre-amps. 

This is not the same terminology we use when we talk about external mic preamps, which are used to bring mic level signals up to line level for use with A/Ds, etc.  I _think_ that mic bodies generally provide some level of gain to bring the signal coming from the capsule up to typical mic output levels.

That said, my ECMS box+active cables+capsules has about the same "mic" output as my 480/ck6x mic set up did.  That's why I was asking Richard whether there is any level of gain in his system.  I know he isn't planning gain in the traditional mic preamp to line level sense, but I was curious if there was no gain whatsoever whether that means the mic output is unusually low.

Mic bodies don't provide gain in the typical sense.  They merely buffer/strengthen the existing signal so it can drive a balanced cable and a low impedance preamp input.  There are typically two buffers in the mic body.  The first is the FET (field effect transistor) right at the capsule.  This strengthens the extremely weak signal from the capsule.  The second is the a line driver transistor(s) or a transformer, or both.  This drives the balanced cable.

What I am doing is the former only, ie., the FET.  There is no line driver and certainly no preamp.  The output impedance will be high (eg., 10k), just like the battery boxes we all use for electret mics.

I'll leave it up to others if they want to add stuff, either a line driver or a preamp stage.

  Richard

PS: I'll be away for the next week.  Then I will return to experimenting.  I think I know the (noise) problem now.  I just need some time to fix it.

[grider]

I really don't know if my ECMS box has any gain or not.  It does not have gain in our traditional sense of being a mic pre-amp.

does your battery box have gain control knobs???

[poorlyconditioned]

I really don't know if my ECMS box has any gain or not.  It does not have gain in our traditional sense of being a mic pre-amp.

does your battery box have gain control knobs???

No gain, no filtering.  Just a straight box.  I always use units (MD, UA5, Presonus, etc) with gain controls on them....

  Richard

[grider]

I really don't know if my ECMS box has any gain or not.  It does not have gain in our traditional sense of being a mic pre-amp.

does your battery box have gain control knobs???

No gain, no filtering.  Just a straight box.  I always use units (MD, UA5, Presonus, etc) with gain controls on them....

  Richard

that inquiry was actually directed at Todd and his JK Labs box, Richard