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Author Topic: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)  (Read 5443 times)

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Offline guitard

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I'm still very much a newbie - and I've got the mic to prove it!

I would sincerely appreciate any and all critiques and constructive criticism.  Recorded with a Sony TCD-D100 and a Sony ECM-719 mic (yeah... I know I need to upgrade the mic) dead center about 20 feet in front of the stage.

This is a 3 MB mp3 of one song of a band I recorded a few hours ago.  The turnout was absolutely pitiful.  If it wasn't for a pool tournament going on in the back of the club, there would have only been ten people there.  And to make matters worse, I couldn't clap because I didn't want it messing up the recording.  I had permission to tape, so hopefully they understood.  The band is called Wideawake and they are from Austin, TX.  Really good band playing all original tunes with one cover.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=E24DD4D7469EB139
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline guitard

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2006, 11:00:21 AM »
A few very nice TS folk PMed and said this basically sounds like shit (my interpretation - not their actual words!).  So I bit the bullet and ordered some Core Sound Cardioids with battery box ($257.50) today.  Hopefully there will be a marked difference in quality with my next recording.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2006, 12:06:46 PM »
not THAT bad, but just doesnt have much bass and a real good live feel, needs more of everything, but better than nothing so..........
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline chucky

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2006, 01:30:57 PM »
A few very nice TS folk PMed and said this basically sounds like shit (my interpretation - not their actual words!).  So I bit the bullet and ordered some Core Sound Cardioids with battery box ($257.50) today.  Hopefully there will be a marked difference in quality with my next recording.

That's kinda funny, but don't forget that most people here have thousands of dollars worth of gear, but def. better than nothing as Bean said. If you remember I listened and gave ya feedback about the last recording you posted. The last recording was really hot, this one seems much better. I think the sound you got here is about all you can expect from the mic used. I think you'll be very happy with the CS's/Batt. box. They were my first mics, and I was stoked on them till I started to get the bug. You'll def. notice a big differance.

RebelRebel

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2006, 02:37:23 PM »
It isnt all about the gear, about 75% of it is how you use it. I bet a lot of great recordings that are floating around were made with even less than that ECM...there are a lot of factors in what makes or breaks a gig. Ive heard recordings that were made with "top of the line" (their words) microphones that sounded like absolute garbage.  and ive heard ECM recordings that sound really good. . learn how to use what you have, and once youve done that you will be able to figure out what that setup does or does not do for you and make an informed purchasing decision based on what youve gathered.Dont expect your recordings to automatically be great just because you have bought more expensive mics. Get those mics in the right spot. ;) Good luck!

A few very nice TS folk PMed and said this basically sounds like shit (my interpretation - not their actual words!).  So I bit the bullet and ordered some Core Sound Cardioids with battery box ($257.50) today.  Hopefully there will be a marked difference in quality with my next recording.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2006, 02:39:33 PM by Teddy »

Offline guitard

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2006, 10:47:39 PM »
+Ts all around!  Thanks for the replies - much appreciated.

Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline chucky

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2006, 12:59:29 AM »
Not trying to be a dick but...

I bet a lot of great recordings that are floating around were made with even less than that ECM...

Torrents? I'd love to hear some of these "great" ECM, or worse sourced recordings that you speak of.
Even better, two torrents of the same show where the ECM sounds better than anything.

Ive heard recordings that were made with "top of the line" (their words) microphones that sounded like absolute garbage. 

Do you really wanna go there?

learn how to use what you have, and once youve done that you will be able to figure out what that setup does or does not do for you and make an informed purchasing decision based on what youve gathered.Dont expect your recordings to automatically be great just because you have bought more expensive mics.

Nevermind...

« Last Edit: June 04, 2006, 01:06:47 AM by chucky »

Offline chucky

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2006, 01:34:52 PM »
Got a PM from Teddy aboout my above post I'll break it down for him here.

First of all you call this a low blow, not really sure what you mean by that , I'll explain to you my comments made in the above post (in public) incase others think this was meant to be a personal attack.

Comment 1 - I simply asked for a torrent to backup your claim, nuff said.

Comment 2 - I don't like how you say "top of the line" (in their words) WTF is that, are you trying to say that those people are wrong? What do you mean (in their words)? Your constantly saying to let people make their own decisions, everyone has diff. ears, and you are absolutely correct everyone has a sound they like can't argue with that but you say these sound like garbage. To who? You? since when are you the authority? Nobody is gonna release a recording that they think sounds like garbage.

Comment 3 - First you say " Learn how to use what you have first" This isn't his first recording with this mic, he's been using it for awhile. You state "don't expect your recordings to automatically be great just because you have bought more expensive mics" You act like he's gonna drop 2G's on a pair of MGs/Neumanns/or Schoeps right outta the gate. Cmon, do you honestly think that these mics won't be an upgrade from what he's running now? If you followed his posts you would know that he's a stealther. Now,  do you think that these mics wouldn't be an upgrade from the ECM? Since he chose the CS's he's obviously not thinking with his wallet or he'd get a pair of 406xs which ofcourse would be a good rec. to go the next step.

So, no need to compare me to the likes of GOTFOB bro, I'm not here to flame you. I just didn't agree with your post, didn't know that nobodys allowed to challenge your opinions, maybe you can talk to Bri to get that into the posting and you thread.

Edit: Spelling and such
« Last Edit: June 04, 2006, 03:25:46 PM by chucky »

Offline nihilistic0

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2006, 02:02:55 AM »
I have 2 different sources from a Billy Joel concert.  One was recorded with Source: Schoeps CMC621 > Sound Devices 722 @ 24bit/96kHz.  It sounds very good


Another person taped with AT853 > battery box > Denecke AD-20 > Nomad Jukebox 3, and can hang with the schoeps source


Sure the schoeps sounded a little more natural, but it didnt sound a few hundred dollars betetr.
SP-CMC-4 (AT853) > SP-SPSB-1 (no rolloff) > Tascam DR-05

Offline chucky

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2006, 04:57:38 AM »
I have 2 different sources from a Billy Joel concert.  One was recorded with Source: Schoeps CMC621 > Sound Devices 722 @ 24bit/96kHz.  It sounds very good

Another person taped with AT853 > battery box > Denecke AD-20 > Nomad Jukebox 3, and can hang with the schoeps source

Sure the schoeps sounded a little more natural, but it didnt sound a few hundred dollars betetr.

What was the location of each source ?   What type of playback gear were you listening through ?
Did you playback the Schoeps source at 24 bit, or was it dithered?   

Those sources are thousands of dollars apart, not hundreds. Not that the value has anything to do with it but...
I could def. understand if the AT source was in the sweet spot and the 24bit Schoeps source was way out in BFE.

I guess your trying to say the price of the rig doesn't matter, and I agree to a point.
But, We weren't debating Schoeps vs. ATs. and if we compared the ATs to the ECM from the same location the ATs would blow the ECM outta the water(as would the CSs IMO). Plus the ATs or CSs would already win hands down without a test because he'll be stealthing.


« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 06:43:38 AM by chucky »

RebelRebel

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2006, 07:58:08 AM »
to the ECM from the same location the ATs would blow the ECM outta the water(as would the CSs IMO). Plus the ATs or CSs would already win hands down without a test because he'll be stealthing.


If sound is in the ear of the beholder(didnt you just give a spiel on that, asking how was I the authority on anything??) then how can you make the generalization that the AT or CS would win hands down??Who are YOU? Are you an authority? Anybody knows that nothing in audio is guaranteed. Including the rather uninformed statement that one mic will always win over another...


Quote
Comment 1 - I simply asked for a torrent to backup your claim, nuff said.
Im not here to prove anything, and dont care to. .thats that.  I heard what I heard. As you dont have my ears, and I dont have yours...what good would providing links do? The statement that I made was that ive heard ECM recordings that sound really good(which I have), and I have also heard "high dollar" mic sources that sounded bad.(which I have)  Are you so bold as to tell me what I do or do not hear? Thought not.
Quote
I don't like how you say "top of the line" (in their words) WTF is that, are you trying to say that those people are wrong? What do you mean (in their words)?
That one is pretty self explanatory. No hidden meaning. I said "in their words" so what does that mean??Probably "in their words"....
Quote
To who? You? since when are you the authority? Nobody is gonna release a recording that they think sounds like garbage.
I am the absolute authority on what I hear. I dont care what others think of their recordings. I comment based on what I hear. Who are you to tell me that what I hear does not sound like garbage to me? Exactly.
Quote
First you say " Learn how to use what you have first" This isn't his first recording with this mic, he's been using it for awhile.
That was a general statement. I knew he already purchased the CSBs, so I was not referring to his ECM microphone. I simply said that there are a lot of other factors into what makes or breaks a recording, and to not expect a miracle just because more money was spent.
Quote
You act like he's gonna drop 2G's on a pair of MGs/Neumanns/or Schoeps right outta the gate.
In whos world??I said nothing of the sort. I leave nothing to the imagination. If I have something to say, I say it. Dont misconstrue what I say. I speak very plainly and very bluntly.
Quote
Cmon, do you honestly think that these mics won't be an upgrade from what he's running now?
They might not sound like an upgrade automatically..too many other factors to consider. Once again, there are no absolutes. This is no exception....regardless of what you say or do not say.
Quote
I just didn't agree with your post, didn't know that nobodys allowed to challenge your opinions, maybe you can talk to Bri to get that into the posting and you thread.
Of course , anyone is allowed to challenge what I say. It happens daily.However, If you act like an ass while doing so, I will talk to you about it, which  I did. Now examine that statement...Does that come off as adult, civil conversation, or does it come off as childish and reactionary?My vote is for the latter. I PMd you because it was the adult thing to do. You chose to be confrontational and childish about it,with off the cuff remarks, and talking about what I said in the PM... so thats that. Ill finish this post and detach from this conversation. I prefer the high ground anymore. confrontation with random internet people isnt worth the effort.
Quote
Not trying to be a dick but...
My experience is that when somebody prefaces a sentence with that very statement, 100% of the time they sound like a dick, and are trying to. You stating that makes you look like more of one, as it is a lie.
Quote
So, no need to compare me to the likes of GOTFOB bro
Hey "bro" I call it like I see it. If that offends your sensibilities, so be it.


My general point was that you dont have to have expensive gear to make good recordings. Once again, there are no absolutes in this craft. Anybody that says so is wrong. That includes ECM mics, panasonic mics, et al...You cannot make absolute statements anyway because nobody has the same  pair of ears. Maybe an ECM source WOULD sound better to some people. You dont have the authority to dispute that, nor do I or anyone else for that matter...

over and out.

Teddy






« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 08:02:47 AM by Teddy »

Offline guitard

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2006, 09:12:40 AM »
All that I'm really hoping for is that - given the exact same circumstances, i.e., same equipment, same seat, venue, band, etc., etc. - if I swap out the ECM mic for CSes, the recording will sound better to the majority of people who listen to it.  Got a reggae show coming up on 21 June - if the CSes arrive by then (I live in Asia... so you never know), I'll post a clip.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

RebelRebel

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2006, 10:06:25 AM »
All that I'm really hoping for is that - given the exact same circumstances, i.e., same equipment, same seat, venue, band, etc., etc. - if I swap out the ECM mic for CSes, the recording will sound better to the majority of people who listen to it.  Got a reggae show coming up on 21 June - if the CSes arrive by then (I live in Asia... so you never know), I'll post a clip.

I just hope it sounds better to you. Good luck bud.


Offline chucky

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2006, 01:40:38 PM »
 :lol: Teddy bro, I'm way to fucked up to reply, and if I do I'll prolly bring up
some old shit to make you really hot so I'll tell a joke.

 What do you call a guy with no arms or legs floating in the ocean?


Offline Unitmonster

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Re: Please give this Newbie's recording a quick listen (3MB mp3 sample)
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2006, 01:37:49 AM »
Not trying to be a dick but...

I bet a lot of great recordings that are floating around were made with even less than that ECM...

Torrents? I'd love to hear some of these "great" ECM, or worse sourced recordings that you speak of.
Even better, two torrents of the same show where the ECM sounds better than anything.



Try this out: http://www.archive.org/details/asmz2005-06-16.mic.flac16

Source: Sony ECM-DS70P--> iRiver H120 - 16/44 WAV--> SoundForge (EQ, slight compression, some declipping)--> FLAC v1.1.2a (Q5)

Comments for the taper:

Reviewer: baraquel -  - December 19, 2005
Subject: Great recording!

This really is a great reording; as has been already said, it sounds as though it could be from the sound board.
The band themselves seem to be on top form with each song sounding great. If you only have limited d/l available, my favourite of the tracks here are 'American Motor Over Smoldered Field', 'Mountains Made of Stream', and 'Movie (Never Made)'. But definately get the whole show you fools!

Reviewer: setfiretoflames -  - August 11, 2005
Subject: GREAT RECORDINGS!!

Thank you so much for recording these 2 shows and making them available. You have captured Mt Zion's live sound beautifully, I close my eyes and feel like I'm standing in front of Efrim! For people like myself living in Australia, you have given the chnace to enjoy the band's live sound so I am most grateful to you.

Reviewer: EricCason -  - August 8, 2005
Subject: The Best I've Heard Here

A very good sounding recording, a good selection of songs, and lots of funny banter from what's usually a quiet band. Worth the download for anyone into ASMZ, GS!YBE or Post-Rock-Folk-Beautifully Honest Music.

Reviewer: 6079smithw -  - July 22, 2005
Subject: Great Recording & Performance

This recording is amazingly good considering it's from a mic. It's so good that if I didn't know any better, and someone told me it was soundboard--well, I'd believe them. The performance is tight and emotional as well. Highly recommend this show.


-----------------------------------------


Or this one: http://www.archive.org/details/sci1999-08-13.flac

Source:  Sony ECM 19B>PCM-M1




« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 01:56:49 AM by Unitmonster »
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