Topic: Matrix Mixes (n00b)

[mylifeisought]

I'm trying to put together a couple of matrix mixes for My Morning Jacket. I'm on a Mac, what software should i be using?

[cfox]

how about helping us with some info on either digitalperformer, or even Cuebase...

[Roving Sign]

IMO (mac or otherwise) - there is no good way to post matrix two tracks (yet)...A/D clock drift is the primary obstacle.

No two sources will align perfectly, one will always drift out of sync with the other.

Teddy posted some stuff the other day - but we need something simpler, that really addresses this one particular issue.

There a some different hacks that minimize the drift, and some folks use a "stretch" function in a certain software...( I forget which)

It seems like there has to be away to compare and sync up the clocks from two waves - So the files will be consistient timewise...

[scb]

IMO (mac or otherwise) - there is no good way to post matrix two tracks (yet)...A/D clock drift is the primary obstacle.

so clock them together

[kskreider]

I'm trying to put together a couple of matrix mixes for My Morning Jacket. I'm on a Mac, what software should i be using?

Windows.   

[Gordon]

IMO (mac or otherwise) - there is no good way to post matrix two tracks (yet)...A/D clock drift is the primary obstacle.

No two sources will align perfectly, one will always drift out of sync with the other.

Teddy posted some stuff the other day - but we need something simpler, that really addresses this one particular issue.

There a some different hacks that minimize the drift, and some folks use a "stretch" function in a certain software...( I forget which)

It seems like there has to be away to compare and sync up the clocks from two waves - So the files will be consistient timewise...

it's not hard at all with wavelab's montage.

[scb]

it's not hard with pro tools, deck or any other mac program i ever tried with, either

[wbrisette]

I'm on a Mac, what software should i be using?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=62294.0

There are a lot of suggestions there.

I have both Logic and Digital Performer. I prefer DP though.

Wayne

[Roving Sign]

IMO (mac or otherwise) - there is no good way to post matrix two tracks (yet)...A/D clock drift is the primary obstacle.

No two sources will align perfectly, one will always drift out of sync with the other.

Teddy posted some stuff the other day - but we need something simpler, that really addresses this one particular issue.

There a some different hacks that minimize the drift, and some folks use a "stretch" function in a certain software...( I forget which)

It seems like there has to be away to compare and sync up the clocks from two waves - So the files will be consistient timewise...

it's not hard at all with wavelab's montage.

Do you have any ideas, technically, how Wavelab overcomes the clock differences?

Just what does "montage" do?

[kskreider]

Do you have any ideas, technically, how Wavelab overcomes the clock differences?

Just what does "montage" do?

The key with the montage it to lay one of your sources out as one long track.  Then chop up the other source into seperate tracks.  Line up each chopped track one by one against the long track, thus overcoming any clock differences.  It ain't perfect rocket science, but it works really well and no one will ever know but us.

[Gordon]

IMO (mac or otherwise) - there is no good way to post matrix two tracks (yet)...A/D clock drift is the primary obstacle.

No two sources will align perfectly, one will always drift out of sync with the other.

Teddy posted some stuff the other day - but we need something simpler, that really addresses this one particular issue.

There a some different hacks that minimize the drift, and some folks use a "stretch" function in a certain software...( I forget which)

It seems like there has to be away to compare and sync up the clocks from two waves - So the files will be consistient timewise...

it's not hard at all with wavelab's montage.

Do you have any ideas, technically, how Wavelab overcomes the clock differences?

Just what does "montage" do?

the montage just mix's two or more sources together.  as for the clock thing.  I've had great luck doing the sbd in tracks and one olong aud file.  you match up each sbd track with the aud.  not that hard just can take a while.  I've done it with two jb3 sources so the clocks should be the close if not the same.  also done it with a dat source and jb3 source and the hardest was a aud from 92 and the sbd of the same show.  the aud was in shn form when I started and the sbd was a audio cd so who knows what clocks etc were used but it sounds great and I got everything to match.  I've never done any time streach at all.

[Roving Sign]

So "Montage", more or less, amounts to chop and resync each track - thus making drift less noticeable...

But it really doesn't solve the problem...thus its really just another hack...(I've done it this way with Audacity also)

Not trying to knock anyone's method - I just wish there was a clear explanation of how to overcome A/D clock drift...

I think there are some features in Audacity that still hold some promise...but need to be investigated...

Like - Time Track? Enhanced Autocorrelation?

I see they have an Audacity Forum now - I'll ask over there and report back...

[wbrisette]

Not trying to knock anyone's method - I just wish there was a clear explanation of how to overcome A/D clock drift...

Obviously the best way is to use the same PLL clock for everything. Obviously if you're using two different pieces of gear that don't support external clocking, this can't be done. So, then you are stuck with the workarounds presented here.

Thinking out loud here... could you not pull-up or pull-down the audio on one of them? That's how it's down in the film world to sync to cameras... but then I guess maybe that wouldn't work since if you changed the audio in one to 48.002 K when you brought it into a 48K application, it would change the pitch... an interesting thought though. I might have to do some playing around with this idea.

Wayne

[Roving Sign]

Im going to have to experiment with some gear...

I have a rack A/D that will allow you to set the input to "sync" "external" or "internal PLL"

I wonder if I ran two sources through the internal PLL setting...would I get a steady clock?

Is there such a thing as reclocking?

I've actually run my setup with two ADs using the same clock - but still seemed to have drift (this has to be repeated because there were errors -clicks- in one of the recordings...)

But it makes me wonder - where is the clock ulitimately set?....external A/D or does the JB3 add its own clock...?

[wbrisette]

I wonder if I ran two sources through the internal PLL setting...would I get a steady clock?

First, you have to have equipment that supports external clocking. I didn't realize you were trying to use a JB3. Unless you're feeding it a digital signal, it's using its own clocking. If you're feeding it a digital signal, then the clock from that source is the master.

Is there such a thing as reclocking?

That is in theory what all the pull-up and pull-down thing does. Unfortunately, where this falls down is in how it must be done, D-A-A-D.

I've actually run my setup with two ADs using the same clock - but still seemed to have drift (this has to be repeated because there were errors -clicks- in one of the recordings...)

The clicks are because you really weren't using the same clock. One of the devices was using its own clock and you were feeding it a signal that was driving out a clock, thus you basically had two master clocks. In the digital world this causes the clicks you heard.


Wayne