Topic: how to run my C4s in this venue

[Gizby]

This Sunday I'll be seeing one of my favorite local bands in a venue which has caused me nothing but grief on previous outings. It's actually the back room in a cafe/bar. The band is sort of familiar with me and knows of my taping them (I give the guitar player copies of the shows if they turn out well). And the venue doesn't seem to care at all that I tape either. No, it's the acoustics of the place. Here's a very rough picture of the layout.



The red square is the stage, the black squares within are the amps (supplied by the band), the yellow things are couches, the blue circles are tables, the dark green squares are pillars, the grey rectangle is the bar, and the magenta mass in the back on one of the couches is me. At least that's where I plan to set up this time. The first time I recorded there I was running AT831s > SP Batt Box > MD. For some reason, there was a lot of static in the recording (the only time I've ever had that problem). The second time I was running AT831s > SP Batt Box > MicroTrack. Lots of clipping (that MT runs hot). This time I have myself some C4s and a UA-5 (as evidenced in my sig) so I should be safe from clipping. The band is largely instrumental, reaching those loud moments kind of like Mogwai. Epic in soundscape. This is not an epic space. Using the picture above, the alley between the stage and me (bordered off by the wall and the pillars) is about 25-30 feet long and 10 feet wide. In the past with the 831s I just clipped them to my glasses, sat back, and enjoyed. With the C4s I don't have any proper stands. So far I've been in situations where I've been able to place them on the edges of tables and such. Here I'll be sitting on a couch. I'll either attempt to somehow keep them on my shoulders (tape?) and kind of put them near my knees or something non-precise and heretical by practices here.

With all that said, should I run the C4s with cards and attempt to keep them pointed at the amps, or should I use the omnis and not worry too much about placement?

[paullySC]

Do you have any way to get a stand to borrow? What state do you live in?

[Oysterhead00]

With all that said, should I run the C4s with cards and attempt to keep them pointed at the amps, or should I use the omnis and not worry too much about placement?

I'd recommend running the cards aimed right at each amp.  Omni's would scare me with the bar off to the left, you'd probably get a ton of talking/yelling in your left channel.  I'd HIGHLY recommend getting an 8' stand (can be found for under $40) to stick behind the couch and get above the talkers and moving bodies that might walk in front of you causing changes in the sound.  The stand alone will GREATLY improve your recordings.  Also, if you are having issues running hot, just run the levels really low and normalize to 0db in post.  It's easier to boost the sound than to remove distortion.

[momule]

Also, if you are having issues running hot, just run the levels really low and normalize to 0db in post.  It's easier to boost the sound than to remove distortion.

You can’t polish a turd. 

Make sure your getting an occasional blink from the clip light on the UA-5. 

[Humbug]

How heavy are the C4s?

You may be able to secure them to the pillar (closest to the couch you were planning on sitting on), with masking tape, and then cover the masking tape with gaffa tape for strength (and to avoid getting the mics covered in sticky residue).

Run cables down to UA5 and recorder on a chair or gear bag.

Yes, off centre, but standing on a chair to setup you should get the mics to 8 or 9 feet. Suggest you stay with the equipment though!

Dunno if it'd work with full size mics, but it definately works with mini mics..

Edit: just seen where the bar is..

Look for something above the couch to which you could attach the mics..

[Gizby]

Do you have any way to get a stand to borrow? What state do you live in?

I live in Orange County, California. Don't know any local tapers.

I'd recommend running the cards aimed right at each amp.  Omni's would scare me with the bar off to the left, you'd probably get a ton of talking/yelling in your left channel.  I'd HIGHLY recommend getting an 8' stand (can be found for under $40) to stick behind the couch and get above the talkers and moving bodies that might walk in front of you causing changes in the sound. 

I don't think there would be too much talking coming from the bar area (judging from past experiences with this band in that location), but you're right, I should probably invest in a stand regardless. Any place common that I could pick one up like Best Buy on such short notice?

[Ryan Sims]

Any music store or camera store will have a passable stand for not too much at all.  If you have the choice, tripod instead of monopod.  It's probably going to have the 5/8" thread on the top already, so you're likely ready to go when you get it. 

Best of luck!

[rowjimmytour]

Get a stand and a AKG swivel bar!!! Run the mics DIN in the sound triangle (Amp Distance A+Amp Distance B=Your distance from stage). Try this first and then go from their. Also if the band allows it ya could try matrix on the fly. Still ya need a stand and bar and ya don't mention where the Sound board is located. Mabey matrix w/ mics on stage w/ omni.
Good luck!!
peace

[Oysterhead00]

I'd recommend running the cards aimed right at each amp.  Omni's would scare me with the bar off to the left, you'd probably get a ton of talking/yelling in your left channel.  I'd HIGHLY recommend getting an 8' stand (can be found for under $40) to stick behind the couch and get above the talkers and moving bodies that might walk in front of you causing changes in the sound. 

I don't think there would be too much talking coming from the bar area (judging from past experiences with this band in that location), but you're right, I should probably invest in a stand regardless. Any place common that I could pick one up like Best Buy on such short notice?

Most music stores will have something like this:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-PMS-1&type=store

Not the best kind of stand in the world, but I used mine for 2 years with problems.  You just have to run the boom arm straight up to get the full 8'.  It's just a regular generic vox stand that you can still use for taping.

[easy jim]

If the band is mostly instrumental, it may be best to just try DIN or XY at the stage lip with a small kick drum stand and a T-bar.  That would eliminate most of the room sound and give you a much cleaner pull w/o so much bar and lounge-area chatter between the mics and the stage.

I don't think there would be too much talking coming from the bar area (judging from past experiences with this band in that location), but you're right, I should probably invest in a stand regardless. Any place common that I could pick one up like Best Buy on such short notice?

In Orange County, try either Sam Ash or Guitar Center to get a stand.  You may have an easier time finding a T-bar/stereo adapter for the stand at Sam Ash vs. Guitar Center.

[Gizby]

This place has no soundboard, it's just the band and their amps. And the stage is like a foot off the ground. Plus they tend to move around a bit, so I wouldn't feel comfortable setting up on stage.

Right now, all I have for a T-bar is this. Will that be good enough? I haven't really had any luck in setting up anything other than XY with it, so I've barely used it.

I'll start searching the Sam Ash website to see if they have any suitable stands. Thanks.

[Gizby]

The Samson BT4 looks decent enough. Can anyone attest to it being any good?

[rowjimmytour]

Here is some info on tech and different configurations w/ mics faq from Oades:
http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/faq-mic.html
Also here is a link to your mic stands and other needs:
http://www.micsupply.com/stands.htm
Peace

[Oysterhead00]

The Samson BT4 looks decent enough. Can anyone attest to it being any good?

It's not bad, but you can get MUCH better stands for similar cost....I only suggested this type of stand because I thought you wanted to pick it up in a store ASAP.  That kind of stand can be found is most mall instrument/music shops, but is a 2 piece stand which causes some headaches.  If you're going to order it online anyway....

For a few bucks more you can get this 13' air cushioned beast.  Solid as a rock, but a bit long folded up (still over 3 feet) and heavy.  I have it and love it, but might be a little bulky for some bar taping (though I use it in bars and small clubs).
http://cgi.ebay.com/13-TALL-PRO-HEAVY-DUTY-AIR-CUSHIONED-LIGHT-STANDS-NEW_W0QQitemZ7623073453QQihZ017QQcategoryZ30080QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item7623073453

For a super deal on what is believed to be an 8' stand, check this out.  8' is plenty high in 90% of taping situations and most venues and get a bit cranky if you fly them rediculously high unless it's DMB
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?pid=1000001493

It's discussed in depth on this thread and for the money, you can't go wrong.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71184.15

[Gizby]

For a super deal on what is believed to be an 8' stand, check this out.  8' is plenty high in 90% of taping situations and most venues and get a bit cranky if you fly them rediculously high unless it's DMB
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?pid=1000001493

Ooo, that looks sexy. Now if only there were more places that sold it. I'll try picking it up in the coming weeks. I'd probably need a 3/8" to 5/8" adapter to hook up a t-bar to this, right?

Oh well, it's too late to really get anything of actual quality before Sunday night now. I'll just run cardioids as best I can using an AKG t-bar and a small table tripod I have, set up on a table.