No problem Chris, I've been reading a lot of good reviews concerning your products. So eventually you would have received a PM from me. I'm interested in your interchangeable cap mics so you'll receive a PM from me here soon.
Okay, you guys got me really excited about taping again but now in the open taping arena. Feels like the first time all over again. Remember the first time you taped a show? Kind of like that warm fuzzy feeling.
I can't remember specifically who I taped, to be honest. I'm an old fart and it's been at least ten years ago. But I distinctly remember some of the excitement I've felt in getting home and putting on the headphones to listen to what I got and evaluating how it sounded...and of course there were lots of times when I was disappointed because either the sound wasn't what I'd hoped or the recording got messed up for some reason. Taping has come a long way from those days (with DAT decks for example) and there's alot fewer moving parts now to mess up. Anyway, yes that feeling of satisfaction you get when you realize that you just nailed a recording...I still get off on it today. I think all of us tapers do and I think that's one of the reasons we tape, that and making sure we have a documented souvenir of THE show that you might see on one of the nights when one of your favorite bands comes out and simply KILLS it.
Any-who, So I think I may have figured what I want to do with my stealth option. I'm (almost positive) going to go with Church-Audio's gear: mics and 9100 preamp.
Cool. Lots of satisfied customers on this list, I know. FWIW, lots of people have two rigs, one for open taping and one for stealth. You probably noticed that they give the specifics in their signature line. The church audio gear shows up alot in peeps sigs.
For open taping (and mind you that this is virgin territory for me, so this is actually a beginner set): I'm very interested in the Avantone CK-1's. Just because they have the interchangeable caps and are said to sound great for the price. Now when you say I will need a different pre-amp for these mics I'm assuming the 9100 will not work with these CK-1's, would that be an accurate assumption? I looked at the UA-5 is that this one http://www.roland.com/products/en/UA-5/index.html ?
The 9100 probably wouldn't work because when you get into the full sized microphones, the cables are usually a heavier gauge wire and the connectors on the butt end of the mics are XLRs. There are some cables out there that integrate two XLRs together to a 1/8 mini connector or maybe even to mini-XLRs, but then the issue might be the voltage needed for phantom to power the mics. This is where I'm outta my league in being an expert though, but I think most of the regular sized mics need 48V phantom, but I think the 9100 only provides 9V.
Regarding your questions about the UA-5, my recommendation would be not to buy a new one because you'd most likely want to get it modded for it to sound good. Look for a used one that has already been modded on the Yard Sale. A couple reasons...first they will cost you much less than if you get all the mods done yourself...two, there are ALWAYS UA-5 listed. At any given time, there's probably anywhere from one to 3 or 4 listed.
I'd also listen to all of the different flavors and decide which sounds best to you. The reason I mention the UA-5 is because it's a workhorse and they are an excellent preamp that you can always sell if and when you decide to move on. Here are the different flavors...you can search the archives of TS.com to find out what people have to say about each.
Stock UA-5
Stock but with digi-mod
Oade Modded UA-5 comes in three different flavors; warm mod, transparent mod and presence mod...also known as the W+, T+, and P+ mod UA-5s
Busman Modded UA-5 (much less expensive than the Oade Brothers mod, but is stated to sound very similar to the Oade T+ mod)
There are a million different options for preamps besides a UA-5 though...with prices that range from a couple hundred to a couple thousands. Again, remember that archive.org is your best friend.
I also looked at the Denecke pre-amps but I'm not sure which one. There are about 6 different ones here http://www.denecke.com/Products/Audio%20Accessories/audioaccessories.htm I'm assuming it may be the PS-2 at least that one sounds more familiar to me, but I may be mistaken. This pre-amp will be able to power both mics? Would I have to change the battery after every use? or do the mics not draw that much power from the pre-amp?
Yes, the PS-2 is the preamp that people use, but depending on the setup you end up with, you may also need the ADC unit that goes with it...I can't remember the number...AD-10 or something like that. Personally, I don't think this sounds even close to as nice as the modified UA-5s, but you have to listen for yourself. I mentioned the Denecke because it's a fairly popular and inexpensive starter preamp which shows up in the Yard Sale quite often.
Battery power...you have to ask someone that's familiar with the PS-2, but my guess is that you'd want to change the battery each show. I'd bet that the battery would power it for something like 4 - 6 hours, but again I don't know...just guessing.
The most popular option for a UA-5 is an external battery hooked into the power supply port of the UA-5. These batteries run 30 or 40 and are available on ebay. You need a cable but those are easy to make and all the parts are available from Radio Shack. If you buy a used battery on the Yard Sale, they usually have the cable with it. Most UA-5s on the YS also usually come with the battery and cable packaged with the UA-5.
You also mention cables, would I purchase those from the vendor when I purchase the CK-1's or is there a better alternate solution? I did manage to see this thread http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,86839.0.html but I wasn't sure if the recommended contact could also make mic to pre-amp cables. I will probably be contacting thegreatgumbino to see what is available.
Your best bet and best price will come from buying cables from someone on this list. The great gumbino has a GREAT reputation here. The other 'most popular' type of cables are the Segue Dogstars.
What you want to decide is whether you want cables that are based on a copper core or copper with a silver cladding or something similar. Silver cables are more expensive but they are brighter sounding. I personally have tested both and I was really a skeptic as early as three months ago. No longer. I believe good cables can help the sound of a recording to be brighter and render a more realistic sound to what you are hearing live. There are LOTS and LOTS of people that will argue this. This subject is one of the hottest debated subjects on this list.
Again, the bottom line is you might want to just test the different options out for yourself and decide what you think for the gear that you have. Lots of your decision probably depends on what microphones you have (high end vs lower end) and what type of gear you listen to your recordings through.
Anyway, lower end cables should run about $40 - $50 or so for a decent pair of 15 or 20 foot XLRs made out of mogami or Canare quadstar cable (which ALOT of people on this list run). Higher end silver clad cables will run you anywhere from $80 or 90 for used pair od dogstars to a couple hundred for new pair of some of the higher end sellers.
I have also read good things about using the 1/4" L&R inputs instead of the 1/8" mic jack on the Microtrack. Would you also recommend this? What is the difference if you don't mind me asking? I've heard that you get better results form using the 1/4" jacks.
My personal experience is that the size of jack doesn't seem to make a difference in terms of sound quality. For me, the issue is stability of the rig at the venue and the propensity of a 1/8 jack to have issues with having the cable pulled out during the show or at least jostled. The 1/8 jacks also are less sturdy for the long haul, in my opinion. XLRs is best alternative there because not only are they beefy, but they usually lock in place.
Again, I'm no expert, but you can have cables made into any configuration that you want. The 1/8 jack has the same ultimate end point as the 1/4 stereo jack...they're just configured differently. What I'm saying is I'm pretty sure that you can have stereo cables made up to whatever configureation you want, whether it's XLRs, 1/4 in or 1/8 mini.
Now a question about the pre-amps...Would they go from a 1/8" jack from the pre-amp then split into two 1/4" jacks for the Microtrack? OR can the pre-amp go from two 1/4" jacks to the two needed for the MT? I guess concerning the 9100 I'll ask Chris but what about the pre-amp for the CK-1's?
Same answer. You have to look at the preamp to see what output connections you have available to you and then look at the recorder input options and have a cable made up that accommodates both.
One nice thing again about the UA-5 is that there are many different output options. The most popular is the optical out because it's a digital output (although the signal has already gone thorugh an analog conversion), but the UA-5 also has hard wire options.
I also have a microtrack and for simplicity, I just use the RCA outs on the UA-5 to a 1/8 jack and connect that to the mic in on the microtrack.
I also have a Nomad JB3 and use this same cable, but I prefer to use an optical cable from the optical out on the UA-5 to the optical in on the JB3.
Neither of these recorders is my 'first string team' though. My first string is a Busman modified Marantz PMD-660 which has the preamp built into it. I only have to take my mics, cables and the 660 to the venue and that's it!!!
Concerning which caps to use...For the DMB shows @ the Gorge I will be Row 30 Night 1, Row 43 Night 2, and Row 27 night 3. Would this be far enough that I would use the hyper-cardioid caps? The reserved section would be infront of the stage and it usually goes from row 1-about 50. So am I far enough back that the hypers would be beneficial? I'll be close for the Crowes @ Red Rocks-5th row. And for the Pumpkins @ Red Rocks I will be anywhere in the first 20 rows. I'm going to try and be within the first 10 rows and off to the side a little maybe infront of a stack of overhead speakers. For these shows at Red Rocks I could get away with the omni-directional caps, correct?
Personally wouldn't run Omni's at a concert venue in either case. The reason is that the Omnis will pick up all the crowd noise behind you as well as in front. The advantage of the cards is that they reject the sound from behind. The hypers have a rear lobe, but it's not all that intrusive.
Regarding hypers vs cards, you have to experiment with the specific venue and capsules. Some if it is logic based, but alot of it is specific equipment based and experimentation. In general, from a logical perspective, you just need to consider that a hyper cap generally has a more focused sound pickup pattern. The 'rule of thumb' is that this focusing helps to reject the reverb in a boomy room in an indoor venue and kinda lets the cap sorta zoom in on the sound a little bit.
The same may be true when you're outdoors and back a ways. I've read where some people feel that the hypers help reject a little bit of the crowd and focus in on the stacks a little more.
On the other hand, the cardiods are usually considered the most elegant and musical option for a good sounding show. I think it's safe to say that if you want to record what you are hearing in your seat, then you definitely should run with the cards. Many people say that cards are the ONLY caps to run outdoors because there's no reverb to worry about. Others argue that point and like hypers. Bean, an all-star on this list, runs hypers only for all his recording anymore.
So, you see there are just many different opinions, but regarding the shows that you have coming up, I think you could run either hypers or cards and get good results. I'd leave the omnis home though because there's no reason you'd have to want to pick up any sound from behind you.
Yes, I did use the Core Sound HEB's but I was right infront of the sound man approximately 50 feet from the stage, almost centered in an indoor venue approximately 4000 capacity. It's not bad but it does sound very similar to the CSB's. But now, with this community's help of course, I have a better understanding about what type of mic suits the situation. But for the price that I paid for one set of mics, I now have the opportunity to expand my horizons and explore different options. I'm willing to bet that the HEB's would have done a great job at my upcoming Red Rocks shows but maybe not as well at the Gorge Amphitheater. And then they may have not done so well in an indoor atmosphere such as was the case with the Godsmack show.
Wow! lots of questions and I apologize for that but I have a month to get all this ready to go and you guys have been a wealth of information and advice. I really do appreciate everything!!
amaro
My pleasure and again...good luck and check out that ARCHIVE!!!