Topic: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder

[BayTaynt3d]

FWIW, all line-in is on an R4 is a 20db pad. Same thing for a 660's XLR inputs, you can turn on the 20db pad or not.

Regarding the mic vs. non-mic pad, again I go back to my example. The choice for most of us is between a 10db pad on the mic or a 20db pad on our recorder plus gain. I'm sure it matters which mics and which recorder specifically, but the point I'm making is you can't just say "on mic pads change s/n" without considering the fact that you're alternative is a bigger pad and added gain, which also might affect s/n too possibly?

Anyway, I was just trying to rebut the whole R4 is useless thing. I think people bash the R4 way more than is needed really, but to each his own. Personally, I wish it was a bit more transparent and open sounding than it is, but then again, I can't tell you how many times having an extra spot mic or two, or an extra stereo pair, has made a HUGE difference in the recordings I've made. So, that's the tradeoff really.

I'm still trying to remember why Doug said something about liking a modded R4 more than the mods he does on the Pro. But I'm going to ask him again, cause I bet the same will hold true for the R44 (assuming he can even mod it).

Lastly, pretty much every recording on my website (see sig) that was made in the past year was on a stock R4, so if anyone wants any samples, there are a bunch on my website. Some of those recordings are only one pair, some are with two pairs, and many are with a pair plus a spot mic or two (I often run XY or DIN onstage and pull a direct from the bass amp cause I never seem to have enough bass in my ambient, and because in jazz, when the bassist solos, he's always too quiet, but in post I can use automation and raise up the bass solos, among other tricks, heh.)

[Roving Sign]

FWIW, all line-in is on an R4 is a 20db pad. Same thing for a 660's XLR inputs, you can turn on the 20db pad or not.

Is this a standard amongst gear? - or just Edirols way of doing it...pretty sure hitting the -20 pad on my preamps mic inputs will not magically turn it into a line input...

And to be clear - when you say "turn on the 20db pad or not" - are you referring to the line/mic switch???

[BayTaynt3d]

And to be clear - when you say "turn on the 20db pad or not" - are you referring to the line/mic switch???

Yes.

[Roving Sign]

And to be clear - when you say "turn on the 20db pad or not" - are you referring to the line/mic switch???

Yes.

So - is it really a pad or what?

[BayTaynt3d]

And to be clear - when you say "turn on the 20db pad or not" - are you referring to the line/mic switch???

Yes.

So - is it really a pad or what?

As far as I know, yes, a 20db pad.

Basically the exact same kind of thing a PMD660 does on the XLR inputs (you know, how everyone runs a 660 with the pad on). Same, same. That said, I'm pretty sure not all recorders do the same thing, but many do. Some have a separate signal path for line in, many don't. But someone with more engineering skills ought to chime in on this... Heh...

[intpseeker]

Lastly, pretty much every recording on my website (see sig) that was made in the past year was on a stock R4, so if anyone wants any samples, there are a bunch on my website. Some of those recordings are only one pair, some are with two pairs, and many are with a pair plus a spot mic or two (I often run XY or DIN onstage and pull a direct from the bass amp cause I never seem to have enough bass in my ambient, and because in jazz, when the bassist solos, he's always too quiet, but in post I can use automation and raise up the bass solos, among other tricks, heh.)

+T for an excellent website!

[leehookem]

my 671 has a -20db pad.  it also has a separate line in path.

[BayTaynt3d]

my 671 has a -20db pad.  it also has a separate line in path.

The bigger question is how often do you use it, the pad that is?

And, I'm assuming you can't really use the line-in path with XLR mics that require phantom, correct?

[Tim]

Is this a standard amongst gear? - or just Edirols way of doing it...pretty sure hitting the -20 pad on my preamps mic inputs will not magically turn it into a line input...

I don't know if it's standard but the Apogee mini-me works the same way as the edirol boxes

would you like to bash Apogee next?

[Roving Sign]

Is this a standard amongst gear? - or just Edirols way of doing it...pretty sure hitting the -20 pad on my preamps mic inputs will not magically turn it into a line input...

I don't know if it's standard but the Apogee mini-me works the same way as the edirol boxes

would you like to bash Apogee next?

Lighten up - I made one negative remark - and recanted it 3 times...

Trying to understand how these work - I'm used to different approach...

Does Oade modify Apogee gear?

[BayTaynt3d]

Is this a standard amongst gear? - or just Edirols way of doing it...pretty sure hitting the -20 pad on my preamps mic inputs will not magically turn it into a line input...

I don't know if it's standard but the Apogee mini-me works the same way as the edirol boxes

would you like to bash Apogee next?

Lighten up - I made one negative remark - and recanted it 3 times...

Trying to understand how these work - I'm used to different approach...

Does Oade modify Apogee gear?

+T for hangin' in there and recanting. 

[leehookem]

my 671 has a -20db pad.  it also has a separate line in path.

The bigger question is how often do you use it, the pad that is?

And, I'm assuming you can't really use the line-in path with XLR mics that require phantom, correct?

I use the pad 99% of the time.  The only time I don't is purely acoustical stuff.  I've only used line in a couple of times and that was running off the board.

[BayTaynt3d]

my 671 has a -20db pad.  it also has a separate line in path.

The bigger question is how often do you use it, the pad that is?

And, I'm assuming you can't really use the line-in path with XLR mics that require phantom, correct?

I use the pad 99% of the time.  The only time I don't is purely acoustical stuff.  I've only used line in a couple of times and that was running off the board.

Yeah, so all I was really saying (in that older post from a different thread everyone was referring to) is to ask yourself this question... Are there occasions in that 99% of the time where you could have made it using the 10db pad on your mics going mic-in (aka recorder pad off)  instead of running line in on the recorder (aka -20 pad on) and adding gain? And if so, then for the gear you specifically own, which way would be "better" to run? My intuition is that "less pad, less gain" is going to be the way to go under most scenarios. In my situation, I trust the smaller pad in the AKG more than the larger pad in the R4, and I prefer not adding unneccesary gain if I don't have to. All the other crap I laid out in that older post was just variations of the same basic concept, all of which I think is relevant to more gear than just the R4.

And, just for the record, and FWIW, YMMV, I do admit the R4 pres aren't the best, but they are OK, better than the rumors might have you believe, and I think modded, the unit is quite bad ass. And the R44, for the right people, is as close to a dream box for the value as we tapers have ever had given its price. And on the R4 front, I swear Doug told me once he prefers his modded R4 to his modded R4 Pro, so there might just be hope for the older box too, heh...

[mfoley]

s as close to a dream box for the value as we tapers have ever had given its price.

I can say from the wedding and event crowd, this is a dream machine.  In fact, speaking directly to Frank from Edirol, this unit from was conceived from feedback he got from my fellow videographers.   I have used an R4 for over a year now at various video-related events and it has performed flawlessly.  There were always features on the R4 Pro I would have liked on the standard, but the price range wasa a bit too high.  Moving those needed features to a new box at a fraction of the cost...and operates at a much better power management level(now only four batts for twice the record time) is amazing.  BTW, I found out yesterday, engineers in Japan finished testing syncing three R44s together with a very simple "Y" cable...  ...may come in handy when I have very large live bands at my high-end reception events.

What makes this unit, and also the R4/R4Pro, of great value to the wedding and event videographer, it is ease of setup.   We fight against a big demon when we record our events- TIME.  I routinely have to race from the church to the reception venue to beat the bride and groom and rush in to setup my equipment (I should add, in many cases, I've had to setup audio at the church also...so I have to secure that equipment there and move/rush to the reception).  Even if they only have a DJ, unless you have worked with them before, they can be problematic to work with to get a simple feed.  They either don't want to let you have one from a fear "you'll mess things up for them", or they are too boneheaded about their stuff to know what is the best feed from their system.   In addition, even if you get a direct feed, it can be a bit too sterile for our needs as you loose the "room feel" that is so important in this type of recording process.  In the past, I've also supplemented the board feed with a AT 825 stereo mic (for example) to capture ambiance of the room/dance floor....and having the capability to run it to a single recorder...and one where I wasn't worried/consumed with getting a proper balance at the event (that is what post production is for).  As I stated earlier, we simply don't have the time.  I have gotten away from direct feeds altogether unless I've worked with a DJ before.  I now mic the PA with some Rode M3 mics (they have an additional padding on them to attenuate) and run an ambient stereo mic. 

Live bands is where is gets even more tricky..time wise.  Getting a feed from the board in most small venues will only have the vocals going through the PA...so we must mic the rest of the musicians.  Once again, having the luxury of recording seperate channels without the concern of having to mix it there reduces a huge amount of setup time.  I'm lucky if I get much more than a few minutes of sound check before I'm off to others areas/events of the reception (to shoot video).  Having a box where I can setup in a few minutes...set it and forget it for the rest of the night...and have it going to seperate channels I can mix in post is a dream machine to me....

[digifish_music]

Having a box where I can setup in a few minutes...set it and forget it for the rest of the night...and have it going to seperate channels I can mix in post is a dream machine to me....

Given that you press record and wander off, sounds like you need two...in case one fails

digifish