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Author Topic: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder  (Read 92821 times)

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Offline BayTaynt3d

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #120 on: February 06, 2008, 10:14:29 AM »
Having a box where I can setup in a few minutes...set it and forget it for the rest of the night...and have it going to seperate channels I can mix in post is a dream machine to me....

Given that you press record and wander off, sounds like you need two...in case one fails :)

digifish

Or not. I've probably made 100 recordings with my R4 by pressing rec and wandering off -- only one recording was lost out of the 100, the unit is a tank, and it was my fault for forgetting to recharge my batteries (that's one thing the R4 does not do well, shut down gracefully). The other thing I like if you're the type to "wander off," is the fact the R4, R4 Pro, and I also saw it on the R44, all have laptop locking holes. I often take advantage of that by locking the R4 to something so IT doesn't "wander off." LOL!
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #121 on: February 06, 2008, 12:06:27 PM »
Now I'm curious about the gain structure and performance of the line vs mic in on the R-09 as well.  I've got to imagine that as a less complex Edirol machine it also just pads down the line in.

Back a year and a half ago when my R-09's line-in jack broke and people started reporting that as a weak point, I switched to running my external preamp into the still functioning mic input for about 6 months until I had a chance to send it back to Roland for repair.  

To do so I just backed off the gain a bit on both the external preamp and R-09 to compensate for what I assumed was additional gain added by the R-09 mic preamp stage when using the mic input.  I was pleasantly surprised to not hear any additional noise or degradation in signal quality.  My assumption at the time was that line-in would be cleaner than mic-in on the R-09 and that I was essentially trading gain I had been making with the higher quality external preamp (going line-in) for gain made with the R-09's preamp (mic-in).  I now realize that in all likelihood by goin mic-in, I had instead effectively eliminated the input 'pad' on the R-09's line-input, allowing me to back off on the necessary gain addition of the external preamp.

With the exception of one unusual (for me) and extremely loud show where I could have used a more padded input (I ran the external at 0 gain for the purpose of powering the mics only, and still ate up all the headroom in the signal chain with the R-09's mic input at a gain setting of 1), I had no problems running this way until I had the unit repaired.  I at times thought it sounded 'cleaner' this way, but had no way of confirming this without going to the trouble of setting up a test.  I was also still playing with finding the 'sweet spot' setting for my chain at the time so I was hesitant to attribute any perception of improvement to mic-in vs line-in without carefully eliminating the other variables.  I only did casual critical listening, no noise floor analysis of 'effectively equivalent' gain settings that would yield identical levels of the same signal recorded though the line-in and then the mic-input.  Now I'm interested again.  Perhaps I'll go back to using the mic input more often.
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Offline BayTaynt3d

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #122 on: February 06, 2008, 12:34:08 PM »
Wow, did we get off-topic or what? LMAO!!!

This actually deserves to be it's own thread, cause I'm curious about other devices and other's experiences on this front...

(And BTW, that is EXACTLY what I've been thinking, and the reason for my approach, but I too have never done anything to actually verify it scientifically.)
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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #123 on: February 06, 2008, 12:46:25 PM »
Wow, did we get off-topic or what? LMAO!!!

This actually deserves to be it's own thread, cause I'm curious about other devices and other's experiences on this front...

(And BTW, that is EXACTLY what I've been thinking, and the reason for my approach, but I too have never done anything to actually verify it scientifically.)

Part of the problem is the team threads - there are hardly any R-4 threads...its all in the team area - and even harder to find - I found comments that mirrored my earlier remarks - but tracing a consistent opinion is tough.

I took note of Oade's favorable opinion of the FR2-LE stock pres - that carries enough weight that I might consider sticking with 2 channel for awhile - get my feet wet with 24 bit...rather than get into the R-44...A unit that (by my read) might need a mod to bring it up to the same level of performance - time will tell on the 44...


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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #124 on: February 06, 2008, 02:55:48 PM »
Wow, did we get off-topic or what? LMAO!!!

This actually deserves to be it's own thread, cause I'm curious about other devices and other's experiences on this front...

(And BTW, that is EXACTLY what I've been thinking, and the reason for my approach, but I too have never done anything to actually verify it scientifically.)

You bet. I felt a slight pang of conscience continuing the line of thought in this thread to not even the R4 but R-09.. but that passed.  I do think it's a relevant discussion to the Edirol recorder family as well as other recorders that share front-end circuitry between mic & line inputs.  I'm all for a dedicated thread on this though.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline digifish_music

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #125 on: February 06, 2008, 08:47:38 PM »
Or not. I've probably made 100 recordings with my R4 by pressing rec and wandering off --

I suppose I was thinking mainly about gain settings. I have had bad experiences lately trying to anticipate the gain for a jet fly-bys and thunder. But I suppose the dynamic range is a little more than the average wedding :)

http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=47347

That said, with DJs, music, speeches etc...I'd still want to keep an eye on the gain. And to bring this back on topic, it's a shame the R-44 doesn't have some analog limiters infront of the A/D stages...that's something I love on the MixPre, safety net.

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #126 on: February 06, 2008, 08:57:57 PM »
Or not. I've probably made 100 recordings with my R4 by pressing rec and wandering off --

I suppose I was thinking mainly about gain settings. I have had bad experiences lately trying to anticipate the gain for a jet fly-bys and thunder. But I suppose the dynamic range is a little more than the average wedding :)

http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=47347

That said, with DJs, music, speeches etc...I'd still want to keep an eye on the gain. And to bring this back on topic, it's a shame the R-44 doesn't have some analog limiters infront of the A/D stages...that's something I love on the MixPre, safety net.

digifish

You're making me want to keep my FP24 that's in the YS right now, lol...
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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #127 on: February 07, 2008, 11:56:13 AM »
Quick R-4 phantom question...say you have a XLR board patch - can you still turn phantom on?

This seems like potential problem...wasnt there a Govt Mule gig a few years ago that was nearly canceled cuz some dude turned his phantom power on and blew up the board?

Offline leehookem

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #128 on: February 07, 2008, 12:04:40 PM »
Not sure what happens if it is turned on, but your not supposed to.  Not an issue on the R4 or R44 though.  Just flip the switch.  And it looks like it is easier on the 44 since each channel has a switch.
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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #129 on: February 07, 2008, 12:32:25 PM »
Quick R-4 phantom question...say you have a XLR board patch - can you still turn phantom on?

This seems like potential problem...wasnt there a Govt Mule gig a few years ago that was nearly canceled cuz some dude turned his phantom power on and blew up the board?
phantom power can be turned on and off on the R-4, but only for channels 1&2 or channels 3&4 not for each channel individually. As far as I understand it phantom should NEVER be on when taking a board patch with any device including the r-4 unless you want to fry the board.

Offline Tim

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #130 on: February 07, 2008, 12:39:15 PM »
Quick R-4 phantom question...say you have a XLR board patch - can you still turn phantom on?

This seems like potential problem...wasnt there a Govt Mule gig a few years ago that was nearly canceled cuz some dude turned his phantom power on and blew up the board?
phantom power can be turned on and off on the R-4, but only for channels 1&2 or channels 3&4 not for each channel individually. As far as I understand it phantom should NEVER be on when taking a board patch with any device including the r-4 unless you want to fry the board.

this is correct - turning phantom on would send 48v back to the board and fry it
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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #131 on: February 07, 2008, 01:17:03 PM »
Quick R-4 phantom question...say you have a XLR board patch - can you still turn phantom on?

This seems like potential problem...wasnt there a Govt Mule gig a few years ago that was nearly canceled cuz some dude turned his phantom power on and blew up the board?
phantom power can be turned on and off on the R-4, but only for channels 1&2 or channels 3&4 not for each channel individually. As far as I understand it phantom should NEVER be on when taking a board patch with any device including the r-4 unless you want to fry the board.

this is correct - turning phantom on would send 48v back to the board and fry it

Anyone ever been rejected for a patch because of this...? Im not even sure I would trust myself!

Offline Shawn

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #132 on: February 07, 2008, 01:48:14 PM »
I'm sure it happens all the time. Maybe not directly but more indirectly. I've heard some FOH guys express concern about giving out patches because the guys patching out of them don't know their gear well enough.

Offline bdasilva

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #133 on: February 07, 2008, 04:27:28 PM »
True of  XLRs...   I don't think there is phantom voltage outputs on the TRSs (1/4 plug)
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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #134 on: February 07, 2008, 04:35:12 PM »
I know some engineers who will not give out an XLR patch unless they are comfortable with it and they know the person receiving it understands not to send phantom.

 

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