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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4  (Read 54448 times)

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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #270 on: January 22, 2018, 01:35:01 PM »
Thanks for the responses Mike.  Some comments below.

That said, just keep in mind that this tool only works to convert audio timecode (timecode that has been recorded to an audio track) into metadata timecode that a DAW can read. It will not sync your files automatically; you will still need to plug the files into a DAW like Pro Tools, Reaper, Nuendo to sync the files.

Keep in mind too that timecode is not the same as sync. Timecode (even when recorded as an audio track), just lines up the start of each file. Everything else is still dependent on the recorder's internal clock. This isn't an issue if your takes are only a minute or two long, but over the time of a show (an hour or more), it is likely that the internal clocks in two or more different recorders will drift apart. That will mean that although your files start off in sync, they gradually get out of sync as the show goes on.


I do understand about device drift and timecode, thanks for taking the time to provide that.

However, please take note that the function of the Tentacle devices is for device SYNC, not simply timecode input.  For this reason, I don't think your response acknowledges the function of the Tentacle Sync devices/software combination, which is to automatically (via the software application) compensate for device drift and actually sync the sources up in post. 

YouTube video's demonstrate how the software automatically compensates for device drift to align all of the input sources so that they're synced regardless of the fact that each device is operating from its own internal clock.  (In other words, the Tentacle software indexes off of the Tentacle units for alignment, not the device clocks.)

OK, so the typical application has multiple video cameras (with multiple Tentacle Sync devices)  and a single audio source (also with its own Tentacle Sync unit).  In post, all of the aud/vid sources are input into Tentacle Sync Studio for automatic syncing.

However, my question is a twist on this same theme...could I use this same technique, using multiple Sync units and TSStudio software to sync multiple AUDIO sources.  In my case, there's no video source.  (For instance, one recorder located in the audience and the other at the SBD.)



Most of my work is working with timecode capable cameras, so I've actually never had a chance to use the Tentacle Sync software. However, Tentacle Sync does now have a PC-compatible version. It says it supports WAVE files as both input and output formats, so it should work fine to sync up multiple audio files.

https://tentaclesync.com/timecode-tool

Actually, the software you provided a link to is not the PC-analogy of the Tentacle Sync Studio described above.  It's called the Tentacle Timecode Tool and is basically just a rudimentary PC-based WAVE file converter that converts waves into broadcast waves.  I'm not sure why, but so far Tentacle hasn't offered a PC-based version of their Sync tool.  This software doesn't do me much good, at least in terms of file syncing.

So yeah, I'm still trying to determine there is a PC-based analogy of the Tentacle Sync Studio out there yet.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 01:42:57 PM by fanofjam »

Offline Gordon

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #271 on: January 23, 2018, 04:39:18 PM »
Firmware v1.53 available.
https://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/mixpres-firmware

Last update Jan 18, 2018

Changes introduced in 1.53 include:

Changed
The MixPre-10T transport control's orange LED brightness is dimmed in stop mode to make it clearer when the unit is recording.
The Take List indicates which file is playing back by displaying it in green text.

Fixed
  • Limiters were not always enabled when switching from Advanced to Basic Mode
  • Pans were not always correct after switching to Basic Mode from Advanced Mode with Inputs Linked.
  • If timecode backup time expired when the MixPre-10T was powered off, TOD timecode was incorrect when next powered on.
  • Rare stuttering of audio during playback of some files
  • Audio crackling noise in headphones when turning HP encoder
  • Incorrect gain values when channels are MS linked
  • Sound Reports were not automatically copied to the USB thumbdrive (MixPre-10T only)
  • New Project Name was not retained after a power cycle if no files were recorded in that project
  • Long file names were not being displaying fully


Anyone running this in the field yet?  I went back to 1.20 after all the issues I had with 1.51
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:30:14 AM by Gordon »
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline jbell

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #272 on: January 23, 2018, 04:44:10 PM »
I updated mine to 1.53!!  Seems the only bugs are in play back.  At least that I've seen reported.
Microtech Gefell m20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

-22        -12         -6        TDS     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline dallman

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #273 on: January 24, 2018, 11:01:40 AM »


Anyone running this in the field yet?  I went back to 1.20 after all the issues I had with 1.51

I skipped 1.51 because of your experiences with it. I ran 1.52 on 10 different occasions without any issues. I have run 1.53 once and it seems fine too.
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #274 on: January 24, 2018, 11:14:37 AM »
I'm running for Chris Robinson on Saturday.  I will update to 1.53 if I can remember to do it between now and then. 
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
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Offline JM Charcot

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #275 on: January 24, 2018, 01:25:43 PM »
Thanks for the responses Mike.  Some comments below.

That said, just keep in mind that this tool only works to convert audio timecode (timecode that has been recorded to an audio track) into metadata timecode that a DAW can read. It will not sync your files automatically; you will still need to plug the files into a DAW like Pro Tools, Reaper, Nuendo to sync the files.

Keep in mind too that timecode is not the same as sync. Timecode (even when recorded as an audio track), just lines up the start of each file. Everything else is still dependent on the recorder's internal clock. This isn't an issue if your takes are only a minute or two long, but over the time of a show (an hour or more), it is likely that the internal clocks in two or more different recorders will drift apart. That will mean that although your files start off in sync, they gradually get out of sync as the show goes on.


I do understand about device drift and timecode, thanks for taking the time to provide that.

However, please take note that the function of the Tentacle devices is for device SYNC, not simply timecode input.  For this reason, I don't think your response acknowledges the function of the Tentacle Sync devices/software combination, which is to automatically (via the software application) compensate for device drift and actually sync the sources up in post. 

YouTube video's demonstrate how the software automatically compensates for device drift to align all of the input sources so that they're synced regardless of the fact that each device is operating from its own internal clock.  (In other words, the Tentacle software indexes off of the Tentacle units for alignment, not the device clocks.)

OK, so the typical application has multiple video cameras (with multiple Tentacle Sync devices)  and a single audio source (also with its own Tentacle Sync unit).  In post, all of the aud/vid sources are input into Tentacle Sync Studio for automatic syncing.

However, my question is a twist on this same theme...could I use this same technique, using multiple Sync units and TSStudio software to sync multiple AUDIO sources.  In my case, there's no video source.  (For instance, one recorder located in the audience and the other at the SBD.)



Interested also by having two audio recorders synced on long recordings, if someone has experience about it I'd be glad to read!

Offline Gordon

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #276 on: January 24, 2018, 01:28:41 PM »
I updated today but likely won't be taping for a while.  Worth mentioning it reset my sample rate to 44.1 when connected to computer via usb c.  It would not let me change back to 48.  The screen was greyed out.  When disconnected from computer it remained 44.1.  Once connected to battery it let me pick sample rate again.

Did a bit of testing and on 1.53 everytime I connect it to the computer (how I transfer files) it resets the sample rate to 44.1.  This does not happen on 1.20 (I rolled back to test).

edit:  same thing happens on 1.52 but I figured it out.  When connected via usb it gets set as a recording device in windows.  I had to go into the recording devices settings in windows and change it to 48k.

edit again:   seems the setting doesn't stick as I just disconnected and the same rate stayed at 44.1.  Not sure if this a windows issue or w firmware issue but it's never happened to me until today.

edit yet again:  I'm a dumbass!  Seems on the mixpre the usb c setting was set to audio causing the issue.  On "power only" it does not happen.


« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 02:29:23 PM by Gordon »
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline Duncan

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #277 on: January 27, 2018, 06:29:36 AM »

Regarding making a second lower track. It seems to me if you only use 2 mics, and set the deck to record the 2 ISO tracks and also the Mix track, you will be recording the same thing twice. So...(I think)...if you go into the advanced mode "Record Menu", sub menu "Rec L,R Mix" (not linked), then you can set go sub menu "Left Gain", Sub Menu "Right Gain", and set those lower than ISO track 1 and ISO track 2. That would give you 2 identical recordings at different levels.


Did my first proper recording with my MP6 last night, Fatso Jetson in London
Did what you suggested above and it worked out just right, set the gain to about 15 which turned out to be pretty close to the top of the limit but had the mix track lower so nice and safe and came out great. Ended up using the iso tracks as they had higher levels. also saving these two tracks as my master and binning the big poly file.

Found the whole set up pretty stress free, running it from a small size bag with an Anker Powercore USB C pack and my Schopes CCM5s on my body somewhere :-)

It's really up'ed my confidence in the unit

Duncan
Recording for 39 years and counting, down not up
Schoeps CCM5--SD722
DPA 4061--SD722
AKG CK 61-ULS--Naiant Actives--SD722
DPA 4061 - DPA d:VICE - iPhone 6s+
MixPre6 with some mics

Offline dallman

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #278 on: January 30, 2018, 12:01:55 PM »

Regarding making a second lower track. It seems to me if you only use 2 mics, and set the deck to record the 2 ISO tracks and also the Mix track, you will be recording the same thing twice. So...(I think)...if you go into the advanced mode "Record Menu", sub menu "Rec L,R Mix" (not linked), then you can set go sub menu "Left Gain", Sub Menu "Right Gain", and set those lower than ISO track 1 and ISO track 2. That would give you 2 identical recordings at different levels.


Did my first proper recording with my MP6 last night, Fatso Jetson in London
Did what you suggested above and it worked out just right, set the gain to about 15 which turned out to be pretty close to the top of the limit but had the mix track lower so nice and safe and came out great. Ended up using the iso tracks as they had higher levels. also saving these two tracks as my master and binning the big poly file.

Found the whole set up pretty stress free, running it from a small size bag with an Anker Powercore USB C pack and my Schopes CCM5s on my body somewhere :-)

It's really up'ed my confidence in the unit

Duncan

That is useful news. I thought it would work. Thanks for making me look smart.  8)
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Offline checht

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #279 on: February 06, 2018, 01:46:42 PM »
Just finished reading all 4 parts of this thread; thanks for all the info!
mp3 on its way from B&H, to replace my FR-2w. If y'all would be so kind, a few questions:
1. I'm up for setting gain low and normalizing in post. I run Shoeps MSTC64 w cardiod caps. What might be a good amount of gain for the usual loud rock show?
2. I'll disarm the mixdown tracks, and record 2 iso's. Which mode is best for this? Advanced? Custom? Seems like custom might have issues retaining settings...
3. Who makes the RT Angle stubbies? Contact info?
4. Any other tips for starting out with the mp3?

Much appreciated, this'll be my 6th recorder since the D-6 in '81.  :)

Chris

edited to fix typo
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 01:51:40 PM by checht »
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07

Offline nolamule

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #280 on: February 06, 2018, 02:47:34 PM »
1. I usually run my Mk41s/22s at 20-30 dbs
2. Here are my setting to record ISO tracks only using the front knobs to control gain: Set mode to custom, then set channel to advance, gain to basic, headphone to advance, record to advance, metadata basic, and outputs advance. Then I link my channels to get gain and balance feature. No issues retaining my settings as of yet.
3. GAK and DarkTrain here make cables or send me a PM for a buddy who makes them out of ATL.
4. I think the MP3/6 are very intuitive and once you go through the menus a couple times you will have it all figured out. Two features that would be nice is pre-record and lock.

I like my MP6 so much I am considering getting a MP3 as a backup or second stage or low pro recorder.

 :cheers:

Just finished reading all 4 parts of this thread; thanks for all the info!
mp3 on its way from B&H, to replace my FR-2w. If y'all would be so kind, a few questions:
1. I'm up for setting gain low and normalizing in post. I run Shoeps MSTC64 w cardiod caps. What might be a good amount of gain for the usual loud rock show?
2. I'll disarm the mixdown tracks, and record 2 iso's. Which mode is best for this? Advanced? Custom? Seems like custom might have issues retaining settings...
3. Who makes the RT Angle stubbies? Contact info?
4. Any other tips for starting out with the mp3?

Much appreciated, this'll be my 6th recorder since the D-6 in '81.  :)

Chris

edited to fix typo

Offline checht

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #281 on: February 06, 2018, 03:10:11 PM »
Great info, folks here are the best!
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
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Offline Duncan

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #282 on: February 10, 2018, 12:37:56 PM »
Last gig I did with my MP6 was a very loud Fatso Jetson gig right at the stack and I had the gain set to 16db which was safe but not super low
Duncan
Recording for 39 years and counting, down not up
Schoeps CCM5--SD722
DPA 4061--SD722
AKG CK 61-ULS--Naiant Actives--SD722
DPA 4061 - DPA d:VICE - iPhone 6s+
MixPre6 with some mics

Offline checht

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #283 on: February 10, 2018, 12:58:09 PM »
Last gig I did with my MP6 was a very loud Fatso Jetson gig right at the stack and I had the gain set to 16db which was safe but not super low
Duncan

That was using the front controls, with menu gain at 0, yes?

Got my MP3 yesterday, played for hours, made a couple presets. Thanks to all on this thread, it seemed straight forward, though I did spend a minute trying to tap the teeeny keyboard to name a project  ;D.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07

Offline Duncan

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #284 on: February 10, 2018, 07:58:48 PM »
Last gig I did with my MP6 was a very loud Fatso Jetson gig right at the stack and I had the gain set to 16db which was safe but not super low
Duncan

That was using the front controls, with menu gain at 0, yes?

Got my MP3 yesterday, played for hours, made a couple presets. Thanks to all on this thread, it seemed straight forward, though I did spend a minute trying to tap the teeeny keyboard to name a project  ;D.

No I have it on advanced and set it to 16 in the menus and then have the mix track recording at a lower db as safety track
I have the channels linked so I control the mix track db with the 1st knob and the balance with the 2nd but I tend to set this before the band come on and then leave it all alone and just check every now and then that it's still recording
Duncan
Recording for 39 years and counting, down not up
Schoeps CCM5--SD722
DPA 4061--SD722
AKG CK 61-ULS--Naiant Actives--SD722
DPA 4061 - DPA d:VICE - iPhone 6s+
MixPre6 with some mics

 

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