Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4

[willndmb]

I don't own a MP_ so correct me if I am wrong but this "mix track/safety track" only works if you are doing 2 channels?
If you were doing 3 plus tracks then The mix would be a true mix of them all right?

Basically though it is a way to "dual record" as Tascam calls it on the Dr-60/70

[nolamule]

Correct

I don't own a MP_ so correct me if I am wrong but this "mix track/safety track" only works if you are doing 2 channels?
If you were doing 3 plus tracks then The mix would be a true mix of them all right?

Basically though it is a way to "dual record" as Tascam calls it on the Dr-60/70

[checht]

Interesting info from Danny at SD, regarding recording levels, via email:

Me: With the Kashmir’s low noise floor and high dynamic range, it seems to me that I ought to record at quite low levels, then normalize in post.
Danny:  I would recommend the opposite.  Record at the levels that don't engage the limiter, but are otherwise as high as possible.  When these levels are brought down in post, noise floor, if any, is also reduced.

He suggested running a safety on the iso's at about 10db down.

Chris

[justink]

Interesting info from Danny at SD, regarding recording levels, via email:

Me: With the Kashmir’s low noise floor and high dynamic range, it seems to me that I ought to record at quite low levels, then normalize in post.
Danny:  I would recommend the opposite.  Record at the levels that don't engage the limiter, but are otherwise as high as possible.  When these levels are brought down in post, noise floor, if any, is also reduced.

He suggested running a safety on the iso's at about 10db down.

Chris

Exactly what I’ve been telling people.

You lose bits/depth when you don’t push the levels hot.

If you’re recording an interview or dialog, set the levels wherever and normalize in post. But for music, you’re losing fidelity.

I wouldn’t even mind going over (softly). Audible brickwalling doesn’t happen with gear these days unless you’re just jack hammering that wall.

[voltronic]

Interesting info from Danny at SD, regarding recording levels, via email:

Me: With the Kashmir’s low noise floor and high dynamic range, it seems to me that I ought to record at quite low levels, then normalize in post.
Danny:  I would recommend the opposite.  Record at the levels that don't engage the limiter, but are otherwise as high as possible.  When these levels are brought down in post, noise floor, if any, is also reduced.

He suggested running a safety on the iso's at about 10db down.

Chris

Exactly what I’ve been telling people.

You lose bits/depth when you don’t push the levels hot.

If you’re recording an interview or dialog, set the levels wherever and normalize in post. But for music, you’re losing fidelity.

I wouldn’t even mind going over (softly). Audible brickwalling doesn’t happen with gear these days unless you’re just jack hammering that wall.

This is the common advice from analog recording practice, and I agree you don't want the levels to be too low.  I would be a bit more conservative with the levels though, to avoid any possibility of overs.  Consider that digital brickwalling (audible or not) means you're chopping off part of the waveform, and it's not ever coming back.  That's worse than a slightly higher noisefloor in my opinion.  Those of us who record high dynamic range music also cannot push the levels as hot without risking those overs.

My preferred way is to always have safety tracks as the SD rep suggests, and never any limiter.  Set the main tracks so you have 6-12 dB headroom depending on the type of music you're recording.  Do a max level check in post.  If the main tracks peak anywhere below 0 dB, keep them and dump the safeties.  If there are overs on the mains, do the opposite.

The tricky bit is when you are running so many channels that you don't have room for safety tracks.  Then you have to be even more conservative with levels.

[fanofjam]

^ Agreed and this is the method that almost all tapers use since we also want to enjoy a show and not hawk over levels.  However, Sound Device's larger market is the pro community.  If you're a pro sound guy and you're at a shoot and your only job is getting sound, then you should be monitoring levels fairly often.  I'd say follow Danny's advice in that case.

[johnw]

Could someone explain to me how to run "safety tracks" on the MP6? Or does this just mean record a mix hot with individual tracks (ISOs?) 10dB below the mix? Can I have the mix be just 1,2 and not all the channels? That would allow me to have the mix be hotter and 1,2 be safety tracks. But then there isn't a safety track for 3,4 or 5,6..

[rippleish20]

Could someone explain to me how to run "safety tracks" on the MP6? Or does this just mean record a mix hot with individual tracks (ISOs?) 10dB below the mix? Can I have the mix be just 1,2 and not all the channels? That would allow me to have the mix be hotter and 1,2 be safety tracks. But then there isn't a safety track for 3,4 or 5,6..

If you are only recording two channels,, this - "just mean record a mix hot with individual tracks (ISOs?) 10dB below the mix". The mix track includes all armed channels so if you have more than two channels, you can't use it for a safety track.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

OPERATOR ERROR!!

So I figured I'd share my trouble so hopefully others don't fuck up like I did.

So I run the MixPre-6. 9 times out of 10 I only record 2 channels. Because of this I usually only keep channels 1 & 2 armed (w/o the mixdown track too) in order to reduce my file size.

Well tonight that burned me. Here is what happened and what I plan to do to eliminate that issue in the future:

I ran tonight stealth (couldn't find the artist in advance to ask permission). I ran my stealth mics (Nevaton's) into CH 3 & 4 because it just worked out better. Unfortunately those weren't armed (see above). About 3 or 4 songs in I though...oh shit! Stopped my recording, armed those channels and fired it up again.

From now on I plan on keeping at least CH 1-4 armed all the time (maybe even 5&6). Yes I will have that larger Polywave file with 2 (or 4) blank channels, but I figure it's better to have those when I get home. Once I strip the channels apart I can always delete the polywave file and I'll still have all of my audio.

So...hopefully that helps someone. Be safe...if you're forgetful like me then just leave all of the channels armed.

[wforwumbo]

Finally got around to setting up my Mixpre-6 today for the first time, upgraded to the latest firmware and will be testing it out with my USB-C battery (a RavPower 26800 mAh battery) and my mics tomorrow. Should have everything set up just in time for MGB at the Egg, super stoked to break this thing in.

[checht]

Wondering if I can use CA14's via PIP with MP-3? Would I need batt box and/or pre...

`Cheers

[willndmb]

Wondering if I can use CA14's via PIP with MP-3? Would I need batt box and/or pre...

`Cheers

the MP3 supplies 3v on the mini in. Although it might work, I would feed it 9v from a bb

[OkieFromRigel4]

For those worried about the USB-C connection, I've had very good success with this right angled cable: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MSMOMAR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_Z1MgZ7CViFhFs

The cable exits "down" in the bag, and then "up" to the battery, and is very secure.

I have noticed that the Y cable that came with my Mixpre 3 does not click into place like other USB C cables. There is not enough of the metal connector extending from the plastic if that makes sense.  I am thinking about taking a dremel tool to it and zing off a millimeter of the plastic all the way around the metal C connector. 

[rigpimp]

Could someone explain to me how to run "safety tracks" on the MP6? Or does this just mean record a mix hot with individual tracks (ISOs?) 10dB below the mix? Can I have the mix be just 1,2 and not all the channels? That would allow me to have the mix be hotter and 1,2 be safety tracks. But then there isn't a safety track for 3,4 or 5,6..

If you are only recording two channels,, this - "just mean record a mix hot with individual tracks (ISOs?) 10dB below the mix". The mix track includes all armed channels so if you have more than two channels, you can't use it for a safety track.

The idea of a safety pair intrigues me but if I have a 6-track recorder why am I only going to run a single pair.  I just don't ever see that happening unless I am trying to pull off some  with a giant rig instead of my smaller one. 

I presume this principle is directed primarily at Mixpre-3 owners?  I NEVER record the mix.  NEVER.  However, it is mostly because part of my four channels is a MS pair.

[Gordon]

while I don't do the safety track I only have one set of mics and I have a mp6.  I get sbd a lot so I wanted more than 3 channels.