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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4  (Read 54489 times)

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Offline Gordon

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #315 on: April 18, 2018, 04:20:41 PM »
As long as we're talking about things we'd like to see, I'd prefer that the ISO tracks were given priority in the menu scheme over the LR mixdown tracks.  Maybe I could fix this with my pre-sets, but it seems like I'm constantly going back into the menu to disable the LR tracks, which I personally have absolutely no use for, and enabling my ISO tracks. 

I owned a Zoom F8 before the MixPre and although I love the sound of the Mixpre, the menu's on the F8 were a million times better than the screwball interface on the Mixpre series.

I set my presets, but never use them. The MixPre holds my settings and I have it set to disable the L/R mix and use the front ISO knobs for gain not faders. You should not have to make changes each time.

this.
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #316 on: April 18, 2018, 07:19:33 PM »
As long as we're talking about things we'd like to see, I'd prefer that the ISO tracks were given priority in the menu scheme over the LR mixdown tracks.  Maybe I could fix this with my pre-sets, but it seems like I'm constantly going back into the menu to disable the LR tracks, which I personally have absolutely no use for, and enabling my ISO tracks. 

I owned a Zoom F8 before the MixPre and although I love the sound of the Mixpre, the menu's on the F8 were a million times better than the screwball interface on the Mixpre series.

I have no problem with settings like having L/R off changing on me but I agree completely about focusing on ISOs. They made some really strange design choices with the Mixpre's. Despite advertising it as a recorder, it's really a mixer in my opinion.  The Zooms are much more straight forward for a recorder interface wise...

FWIW, I'm not sure I see the interface any differently when I think of the mixpre series as a mixer.  It's still clunky and non-intuitive and the Zoom F8 menu still wins hands-down as a mixer menu.  That said, I'm not saying that the interface sucks or that it's awful.  It's just...I don't know...goofy.  It's the type of interface that, if you don't use it for six months, you've got to go back to the instruction manual to learn all over again because there's nothing intuitive about it.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 07:24:06 PM by fanofjam »

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #317 on: April 18, 2018, 07:51:03 PM »
As long as we're talking about things we'd like to see, I'd prefer that the ISO tracks were given priority in the menu scheme over the LR mixdown tracks.  Maybe I could fix this with my pre-sets, but it seems like I'm constantly going back into the menu to disable the LR tracks, which I personally have absolutely no use for, and enabling my ISO tracks. 

I owned a Zoom F8 before the MixPre and although I love the sound of the Mixpre, the menu's on the F8 were a million times better than the screwball interface on the Mixpre series.

I have no problem with settings like having L/R off changing on me but I agree completely about focusing on ISOs. They made some really strange design choices with the Mixpre's. Despite advertising it as a recorder, it's really a mixer in my opinion.  The Zooms are much more straight forward for a recorder interface wise...

FWIW, I'm not sure I see the interface any differently when I think of the mixpre series as a mixer.  It's still clunky and non-intuitive and the Zoom F8 menu still wins hands-down as a mixer menu.  That said, I'm not saying that the interface sucks or that it's awful.  It's just...I don't know...goofy.  It's the type of interface that, if you don't use it for six months, you've got to go back to the instruction manual to learn all over again because there's nothing intuitive about it.

I  don't have a problem with the interface per se, its the fact that the big channel knobs control the mix not trim (levels at the pre), at least for the 6 and 10. With the Zooms the knobs control the trim (the recording) and you use menu items to control the faders. With the Mixpre-6 and 10, the knobs control the faders (the mix) and you go into secondary menus to control the trim. To me the former represents a recorder ands the later represents a mixer. I do realize you can use custom or simple mode but then the device is setting the incoming trim level.
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Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #318 on: April 18, 2018, 09:13:49 PM »
Is it true you can run 4 channels on the MixPre 3?  Someone told me you have dedicated gain on channels 1/2 and then one ganged gain for channels 3/4 but there ar eonly three knobs on the unit so not sure I believe this.  Anyone with insight I would love to know if this is true.

Thanks!

Ryan
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #319 on: April 18, 2018, 09:18:09 PM »
Is it true you can run 4 channels on the MixPre 3?  Someone told me you have dedicated gain on channels 1/2 and then one ganged gain for channels 3/4 but there ar eonly three knobs on the unit so not sure I believe this.  Anyone with insight I would love to know if this is true.

Thanks!

Ryan
i think what they might be referring too is the channel mix down.
It has three individual channels it can record plus another two in the mix down, so tech it will record five channels if you want to look at it that way.
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #320 on: April 18, 2018, 10:22:32 PM »
Wow, some of you folks should read the instructions for your recorders.

They aren't making these things for concert taping.

All the settings you want for concert taping are involve a simple one time setup procedure.
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Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #321 on: April 19, 2018, 08:06:09 AM »
Wow, some of you folks should read the instructions for your recorders.

They aren't making these things for concert taping.

All the settings you want for concert taping are involve a simple one time setup procedure.

I know.  It's not a major issue. 

But about your comment 'reading the instructions' and the interface being a 'simple' set up...don't you remember how in the beginning we needed Paul Issacs and a tech support guy to translate the instructions for us?  But sure, once you understand it you can set it and forget it. 

This conversation veered a bit bc of a comment I made on desired firmware changes...wasnt meaning for it to turn into another overall critique of the interface.

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #322 on: April 19, 2018, 09:14:54 AM »
Wow, some of you folks should read the instructions for your recorders.

They aren't making these things for concert taping.

All the settings you want for concert taping are involve a simple one time setup procedure.

I'm not sure who your comment was meant for but in my case I understand how the device works and recognize you can use custom mode - in the case of mixpre-6 - to use the channel knobs for controlling gain for the ISOs. But it's a second stage gain. This is a taper forum and it doesn't seem unreasonable to make comments on the mixpre's usability for our purposes..


"The groundbreaking new MixPre-6 is a lightweight, high-resolution audio recorder with integrated USB audio streaming that offers world-class sound quality combined with extreme durability – perfect for musicians, sound designers, podcasters, videographers, YouTubers and field recordists."

This is the statement from their web site. It's marketed as a recorder and from what I can tell to an audience that includes us...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 09:57:35 AM by rippleish20 »
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Offline nolamule

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #323 on: April 19, 2018, 09:30:10 AM »
^^^ second stage gain

Please elaborate, not sure I understand.

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #324 on: April 19, 2018, 10:13:10 AM »
^^^ second stage gain

Please elaborate, not sure I understand.

I use the mixpre-6 in advanced mode. I set recording levels by going to the gain menu for an individual channel and use the knob on the side to set the gain. This is setting the level of gain at the pre level (ie trim). I don't normally record the L/R mix, but the channel knobs control the gain going into the mix. This is a secondary gain (ie fader).

When you use custom mode (gain at simple), the trim level is set by the recorder and you are altering the second stage gain (or at least that's what appears to be the way it works) . It's not the end of the world, but I prefer to work with gain at the first stage.
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Offline dallman

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #325 on: April 19, 2018, 01:02:24 PM »
^^^ second stage gain

Please elaborate, not sure I understand.

I use the mixpre-6 in advanced mode. I set recording levels by going to the gain menu for an individual channel and use the knob on the side to set the gain. This is setting the level of gain at the pre level (ie trim). I don't normally record the L/R mix, but the channel knobs control the gain going into the mix. This is a secondary gain (ie fader).

When you use custom mode (gain at simple), the trim level is set by the recorder and you are altering the second stage gain (or at least that's what appears to be the way it works) . It's not the end of the world, but I prefer to work with gain at the first stage.

The above is not totally correct. You have a choice on what you want the front knobs to do:

Gain Staging with Linking

In Custom setups, the Linking feature is found in Custom Setup > Channel >
Advanced, which lets you link inputs while still having the option of one or two
gain stages.

Users wanting to link inputs, but control all levels from the front-panel Channel
1 knob should set System > Mode to Custom and then in Custom Setup, set
Gain to Basic and Channel to Advanced.

Users wanting to link inputs with two gain stages while in Custom mode, ensure
that Gain and Channel are both set to Advanced. Then, you can adjust gain
levels for linked channels from the Channel 1 screen and adjust fader levels for
linked channels with the Channel 1 knob.
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #326 on: April 19, 2018, 01:27:48 PM »
^^^ second stage gain

Please elaborate, not sure I understand.

I use the mixpre-6 in advanced mode. I set recording levels by going to the gain menu for an individual channel and use the knob on the side to set the gain. This is setting the level of gain at the pre level (ie trim). I don't normally record the L/R mix, but the channel knobs control the gain going into the mix. This is a secondary gain (ie fader).

When you use custom mode (gain at simple), the trim level is set by the recorder and you are altering the second stage gain (or at least that's what appears to be the way it works) . It's not the end of the world, but I prefer to work with gain at the first stage.

The above is not totally correct. You have a choice on what you want the front knobs to do:

Gain Staging with Linking

In Custom setups, the Linking feature is found in Custom Setup > Channel >
Advanced, which lets you link inputs while still having the option of one or two
gain stages.

Users wanting to link inputs, but control all levels from the front-panel Channel
1 knob should set System > Mode to Custom and then in Custom Setup, set
Gain to Basic and Channel to Advanced.

Users wanting to link inputs with two gain stages while in Custom mode, ensure
that Gain and Channel are both set to Advanced. Then, you can adjust gain
levels for linked channels from the Channel 1 screen and adjust fader levels for
linked channels with the Channel 1 knob.

It's saying the exact  same thing I am as far as I can see, in a slightly different way.


There are two gain stages, what I defined as trim and fader above.

Users wanting to link inputs with two gain stages while in Custom mode, ensure
that Gain and Channel are both set to Advanced. Then, you can adjust gain
levels
for linked channels from the Channel 1 screen and adjust fader levels for
linked channels with the Channel 1 knob.

Regardless of the linking aspect, this is what I do. I can set the trim (first stage) using the channel main menu item and the side knob and I could, if I cared about the mix, set the second level gain using the big knobs
 

but control all levels from the front-panel Channel
1 knob should set System > Mode to Custom and then in Custom Setup, set
Gain to Basic and Channel to Advanced.

This allows you to use the big knobs for controlling gain at the ISO level but what you are controlling is the second stage gain


The custom (advanced/simple) route  simply triggers ISOs to be recorded post fader in addition tothe L/R track.  They explain in their own video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=vL_dmV8n43c

 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 01:57:14 PM by rippleish20 »
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Offline nolamule

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #327 on: April 19, 2018, 03:22:55 PM »
Thanks gents! I figured y’all were taking about trim and fade as the two gain modes but wanted to make sure. I don’t ever record the L/R mix so I never use the fade function.  :cheers:

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #328 on: April 19, 2018, 05:51:29 PM »
I don't understand what difference "first stage" or "second stage" gain makes. It's the same preamp/input stage and all analog gain before the AD stage. How the computer thinks about it is sonically irrelevant.

To repeat, to use the mixpre6 the way tapers are used to using "recorders," do the following:

In "System" set the mode to Custom.
In "Custom Setup" set "Gain" to "Basic" and "Channel" to "Advanced."

Link 1-2, 3-4, & 5-6, or 1-4 and 5-6 or not at all.

Then leave it that way and don't worry about it any more.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline dallman

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    • Clifford Morse
Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #329 on: April 19, 2018, 09:05:34 PM »

This allows you to use the big knobs for controlling gain at the ISO level but what you are controlling is the second stage gain


The custom (advanced/simple) route  simply triggers ISOs to be recorded post fader in addition tothe L/R track.  They explain in their own video


Neither of the above is fully correct when you use the menu path of: In System > Set Mode to Custom and then in Custom Setup, set
Gain to Basic and Channel to Advanced. (As Noah also correctly states above)  I checked with Sound Devices because I was sure I had full gain control and they clarified as such.
This is from my second email as the first one was really informative but not as crystal clear. (and to be brief that is because at the ISO setting above, the mix is also controlled, but if you do not use the mix it does not matter) Again to be clear the answer is for the path stated above.

Hello Clifford,

When linked, one fader will control gain for both inputs.  Yes, this is full gain range from OFF to maximum gain.

Best regards,
Danny

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