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Author Topic: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?  (Read 1249 times)

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Offline daspyknows

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2020, 07:12:25 PM »
I just replaced my whole rig this winter, except the mic stand.

For around $3,700, I bought all new:

MixPre-6ii
Schoeps MK22 Caps
Cables
Shock Mounts
Wind Screens
SD Cards
Power Supply
And tons of other accessories

Good luck, have fun.

That's a big boy rig.  Welcome to the team.

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2020, 09:37:30 PM »
Ssssooooo I've been digesting all your feedback so far. Here's what I'm thinking about buying/doing:

used Porta Brace bag
cables from that guy on this site who makes them with 90° XLR connections
mic stand and T-bar (to hold 4 mics)
AKG C1000 cardi mics (I already own) at far left and far right, pointed just to the outside of the PA speakers
two MBHO 440 cardi mics in the middle in XY, DIN, or ORTF position
shock mounts for 4 mics
new windscreens
Sound Devices MixPre 6
external power for the MixPre 6


I'm ditching the concept of using omni mics. Instead, I'll use the MBHO 440s to fill in the "hole in the middle".

I'll probably end up upgrading the AKG C1000s with AKG 480s.

For a LONG time, my favorite recordings have been made with MBHOs and AKG mics, so I figure I might as well try combining the two brands into one recording.
And BradleyYJ15, that's nicely done!
I definitely welcome any/all advice, criticism, feedback, etc.

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2020, 10:03:24 PM »
Ssssooooo I've been digesting all your feedback so far. Here's what I'm thinking about buying/doing:

used Porta Brace bag
cables from that guy on this site who makes them with 90° XLR connections
mic stand and T-bar (to hold 4 mics)
AKG C1000 cardi mics (I already own) at far left and far right, pointed just to the outside of the PA speakers
two MBHO 440 cardi mics in the middle in XY, DIN, or ORTF position
shock mounts for 4 mics
new windscreens
Sound Devices MixPre 6
external power for the MixPre 6


I'm ditching the concept of using omni mics. Instead, I'll use the MBHO 440s to fill in the "hole in the middle".

I'll probably end up upgrading the AKG C1000s with AKG 480s.

For a LONG time, my favorite recordings have been made with MBHOs and AKG mics, so I figure I might as well try combining the two brands into one recording.
And BradleyYJ15, that's nicely done!
I definitely welcome any/all advice, criticism, feedback, etc.

Seems like a fine plan.  Some might quibble with the mic setup, but follow your interest and do what makes YOU happy.  Besides, you should have plenty of money leftover that if you decide to go in a different direction with mics you'll still be able to do that down the road.  (If I can offer one suggestion, maybe consider investigating subcards for the widely spaced mics...I'm pretty sure MBHO makes a subcard cap.  Then you could have your AKG cards in the middle.  Just something to ponder for the future.)
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2020, 10:05:48 PM »
lots of room to grow with that

and you can even patch 2 channels from neighboring tapers to try out new flavors
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Offline BradleyJY15

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2020, 10:31:09 PM »
I just replaced my whole rig this winter, except the mic stand.

For around $3,700, I bought all new:

MixPre-6ii
Schoeps MK22 Caps
Cables
Shock Mounts
Wind Screens
SD Cards
Power Supply
And tons of other accessories

Good luck, have fun.

Sweet rig.  Unless something breaks or there's some huge leap forward in technology, there's no upgrading needed.

Thanks.  I built this with the idea of adding MK41 or 41Vs in mind.  I much prefer the MK22 when you have the appropriate source, but I want to have the hypers too.

I have to thank Noah (phishrabbi) for helping me build this rig. It is great.
Schoeps MK22 -> Nbob Actives -> Naiant PFA -> SD MixPre-6ii

Offline botz

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2020, 10:34:51 PM »
I've never heard or "subcards". Is that a synonym of hypercardioid ?

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2020, 10:43:31 PM »
subcards/"wide cards" are between card and omni. slightly less directional than a cardioid with more low end.

hypercards/supercards/shotguns are highly directional mics (at the expense of the quality of sounds coming from the sides
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Offline botz

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2020, 10:50:43 PM »
subcards/"wide cards" are between card and omni. slightly less directional than a cardioid with more low end.

hypercards/supercards/shotguns are highly directional mics (at the expense of the quality of sounds coming from the sides
Okay, so pretty much the opposite of hypers. Cool. Did not even know that exists.

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2020, 11:02:16 PM »
the schoeps MK22s mentioned above are an example of "open cards", which differ slightly from their MK21 " wide cards". Both would be considered "subcardioid"

some other popular ones are DPA 4015/4027/4028, Line Audio CM3. also AT853s have card caps

tons of tapes on archive to check out

subcards can sound amazing in the right spot
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 11:51:43 PM by jerryfreak »
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2020, 11:44:10 PM »
To keep the Schoeps accurate....

MK22 (Open Cardioid):

New directional pattern: Open Cardioid
Optimal combination of directionality (MK 4 cardioid) and warm sound characteristics (MK 21 wide cardioid)
Natural sound quality, due to highly consistent polar diagram across the frequency range

The "Open Cardioid" pickup pattern was introduced by SCHOEPS in 2008. It lies between the classic cardioid and the wide cardioid, achieving both a fair amount of directivity and very natural sound quality. Many years' experience of professional recording engineers with the range of Schoeps cardioids has played a large role in the development process. Meanwhile the MK 22 has become a preferred soloist and spot microphone, thus becoming an alternative to the "classic" MK 4.

-------------------------

MK21 (Wide Cardioid):

The directivity of the wide cardioid lies between the omni and the cardioid. The idea behind their development is to combine the advantages of these two patterns. The low-frequency behaviour of the MK 21 is better than that of the cardioid, and proximity effect is less pronounced. The wide cardioid polar pattern is extremely consistent across the frequency range. Laterally-arriving direct sound and reflections are picked up without added coloration. The MK 21 is a very well-liked capsule. It is preferred when a slight directional effect and a warm, natural sound image are desired. Over the years it has become an integral part of the audio engineer's toolkit.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 11:49:22 PM by yug du nord »
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Offline botz

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2020, 08:18:06 AM »
Thanks for the good explanations of the subcardioid family,... which I didn't even know existed.
As much as I'd love to point this kinds of mics at the outside edges of the PA stacks, I doubt a new pair of Schoeps etc is within my budget. So I'll likely just stick with 4 cardioid mics for this rig.  Gotta love the idea of adding a pair of subcardioid mics to that mix at some point in the future, though.

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2020, 08:22:07 AM »
check out line audio threads/posts
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2020, 09:04:10 AM »

Things have certainly changed in recent years and the need to run an outboard preamp/AD converter has become situational or use dependent. I still run a preamp sometimes but it's more about the result I want than the need to. The built in preamps on my Tascam DR701d recorder are more than adequate for live concert recording. It's the same size as the average DAT recorder and has 4 phantom powered inputs, a ton of features and runs all day on a 5V cell phone recharging battery . I paid $325 gently used. You should get good results with any of the decks mentioned - SD Mixpre6 II, Zoom F8/F4/H6, Tascam DR701d and there's more than that. DAT is dead. I bought some 32 Gb SD cards for $7 the other day.

My only advice about your mic choice is that maybe consider getting a pair with interchangeable capsules. That way you can have more pattern choices at your disposal for less money and more flexibility. My main pair right now is a set of Joly modified Oktava MK012 with hypercard, cardioid and omni capsules. Maybe a set of AKG 460 or 480 with a couple pairs of caps would be just right for you since you like the AKG sound.

Happy taping and welcome back.

Joly Mod Oktava MK012 C,H,O  or NakCM300 > Sound Devices 442 or Reference Audio Designs MS2 > Tascam DR701d
Transfers - Tascam DA30 (dats) or Nak MR2 (cassettes) > Sound Devices USB Pre

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2020, 10:24:07 AM »
Thanks for the good explanations of the subcardioid family,... which I didn't even know existed.
As much as I'd love to point this kinds of mics at the outside edges of the PA stacks, I doubt a new pair of Schoeps etc is within my budget. So I'll likely just stick with 4 cardioid mics for this rig.  Gotta love the idea of adding a pair of subcardioid mics to that mix at some point in the future, though.

Just in case you're unaware, you can get Schoeps caps and then get PFAs (I think?) for reasonable prices that let you avoid buying bodies at all.  I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but if you aren't aware of this approach you might be surprised at how much it can save you.

Also, if you're at all interested in subcards DEFINITELY check out the Line Audio CM3/CM4 (they're categorized by the manufacturer as cardioid but they're definitely subcards).  I can't think of any mic that gives as much bang for the buck as those.  The CM3 isn't made anymore, and good luck finding someone who is willing to part with theirs (a testament to the quality of the mics).  The CM4 is the replacement for the CM3, and the CM4 is closer to a cardioid pattern but still definitely in subcard territory.

I'd highly recommend poking your head into the oddball mic setup thread I linked earlier.  You'll find a wealth of knowledge and very helpful people who can give you some feedback on your four-mic setup idea.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline BradleyJY15

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2020, 11:50:33 AM »
Thanks for the good explanations of the subcardioid family,... which I didn't even know existed.
As much as I'd love to point this kinds of mics at the outside edges of the PA stacks, I doubt a new pair of Schoeps etc is within my budget. So I'll likely just stick with 4 cardioid mics for this rig.  Gotta love the idea of adding a pair of subcardioid mics to that mix at some point in the future, though.

Just in case you're unaware, you can get Schoeps caps and then get PFAs (I think?) for reasonable prices that let you avoid buying bodies at all.  I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but if you aren't aware of this approach you might be surprised at how much it can save you.

Also, if you're at all interested in subcards DEFINITELY check out the Line Audio CM3/CM4 (they're categorized by the manufacturer as cardioid but they're definitely subcards).  I can't think of any mic that gives as much bang for the buck as those.  The CM3 isn't made anymore, and good luck finding someone who is willing to part with theirs (a testament to the quality of the mics).  The CM4 is the replacement for the CM3, and the CM4 is closer to a cardioid pattern but still definitely in subcard territory.

I'd highly recommend poking your head into the oddball mic setup thread I linked earlier.  You'll find a wealth of knowledge and very helpful people who can give you some feedback on your four-mic setup idea.

This is correct about the Schoeps caps.  I did not get bodies, I got the active cables to a PFA (with tons of help from people here).  It made the setup for the two caps ~$2,400 instead of ~ $3,300 +/-.  Still not cheap by any means but a great, expandable setup.
Schoeps MK22 -> Nbob Actives -> Naiant PFA -> SD MixPre-6ii

 

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