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Author Topic: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?  (Read 1821 times)

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Offline botz

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I haven't taped a show in 15+ years.  I'm considering getting back into it.  I'll soon have some free time (kids graduating high school & moving on to college & military), and I'm thinking about hitting more shows and recording them.

I like the idea of running 4 mics into a Wendt X4.  I wonder what it'd sound like to mount AKG 480 cardioid to the far left and far right of a T-mount, with a pair of omni mics in the middle.  Perhaps MBHO omnis in the middle?

I have an old Apogee ad500e which I believe still works fine, and I'm inclined to continue using my Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder.

Can I get your opinions on this potential rig?  Think it would make nice recordings?

I'd need to purchase the mics and Wendt X4.  I have old AKG C1000 mics, but I'd prefer to upgrade from those.

Online heathen

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2020, 06:17:51 PM »
First of all, definitely get back into it when shows start happening again!

I've never heard of the Wendt X4.  From a quick Google search it looks like they about $200.  Personally, for that price range in four-channel recorders I'd look at something like a used Zoom H6.  It's a perfectly capable multi-channel recorder that has proven itself.  (On a limited budget you're better off spending any additional money on mics.  While there are "better" recorders than the H6, upgrading mics will provide far more bang for your buck than a more expensive recorder.)

As for your idea about a mic configuration, I would personally be more inclined to flip things around.  A pair of omnis in the middle will be about the same as one omni.  There will likely be little to no stereo separation between the two.  I'd be more inclined to use the cardioids in the middle in an XY configuration, and then mount the omnis wide to each side.  This sort of thing has proven to sound great for others (for example, check out some of the recordings kindms and rocksuitcase have made using a similar setup).  If you want to read a LOT about these sort of setups, go here: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191953.0

One thing you might try is just getting the omnis for now, because who knows maybe you'll like the C1000s better when they're complimented by some quality omnis.

I'd also ditch the DAT.  It's an outdated format and by the time you shell out for some DAT tapes you're well on your way to paying for a Zoom H6.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 06:20:23 PM by heathen »
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline botz

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2020, 06:33:03 PM »
Thanks for the advice about the Zoom H6 as a recorder, and the configuration of the mics.
I suppose I'd need to figure out phantom power for 4 mics, and A/D conversion.

I'm having a hard time visualizing the entire lineage. I've been out of the game for quite a while.

I like the idea of putting some money in high quality omni mics and keeping the AKG C1000 cardis.

Online aaronji

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2020, 06:38:36 PM »
Do you have a budget in mind, botz? Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would get a Sound Devices MixPre-6, or a Zoom F6, and have a four channel, phantom equipped, all-in-one set-up. Maybe that is more than you want to send, though. Personally, I think the pre-amps and ADCs in the MixPres are really good (no experience with the Zoom, although people speak highly of it).

Offline botz

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2020, 06:51:30 PM »
Oooooooh holy cats. You guys are saying the A/D conversion in the Sound Devices and Zoom recorders are good enough to use. I had no idea. I had assumed I'd need an outboard A/D converter and preamp.

If that's what you're saying, then I could just run the 4 mics directly to the Sound Devices or Zoom, without the need for a separate preamp for phantom power or an external A/D converter.

I'm willing to drop like $5k on new mics, recorder, cables, mic stand, shock-mounts, etc.

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2020, 07:16:00 PM »
Oooooooh holy cats. You guys are saying the A/D conversion in the Sound Devices and Zoom recorders are good enough to use. I had no idea. I had assumed I'd need an outboard A/D converter and preamp.

If that's what you're saying, then I could just run the 4 mics directly to the Sound Devices or Zoom, without the need for a separate preamp for phantom power or an external A/D converter.

I'm willing to drop like $5k on new mics, recorder, cables, mic stand, shock-mounts, etc.

Something like a the higher end Zoom recorders or any of the Sound Devices recorders certainly have sufficient built-in A/D converters, and they'll supply phantom power.  With that budget, I'd look for a used Zoom F8, F8n, or Sound Devices Mix Pre 6.  You could get any of those for well under $1,000 so you'd have a nice chunk of change leftover for mics and accessories.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline botz

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2020, 07:37:45 PM »
Thanks a lot for the advice, guys. I'm looking into those recorders right now. They make a lot of sense for the type of recording I have in mind.

Offline daspyknows

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2020, 08:29:49 PM »
Are you planning to run just open shows or stealth too?  That would change some things since stealth is very different now with security.

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2020, 08:39:14 PM »
Thanks a lot for the advice, guys. I'm looking into those recorders right now. They make a lot of sense for the type of recording I have in mind.

this is an absolute steal, imo
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1260110-REG/zoom_zf4_f4_multitack_field_recorder.html
my facemask is a windscreen

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Offline botz

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2020, 08:47:26 PM »
Are you planning to run just open shows or stealth too? 
I don't think I'm going to stealth record shows.   I've always enjoyed recording openly.

Online heathen

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2020, 09:14:28 PM »
Thanks a lot for the advice, guys. I'm looking into those recorders right now. They make a lot of sense for the type of recording I have in mind.

this is an absolute steal, imo
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1260110-REG/zoom_zf4_f4_multitack_field_recorder.html


The F4 is a great recorder.  If you can get by with "only" four channels it's hard to beat for the money.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2020, 09:32:49 PM »
it has 6 channels actually
4 line/P48 on XLR/TRS combo jacks+ a stereo minijack input
my facemask is a windscreen

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capnhook, daspyknows, Melanie, morst, Rob D., Scooter123, Sloan Simpson, Walstib62

Offline ero3030

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2020, 07:56:05 AM »
Drop the the DAT,  grab just any newer flash card/ SD card based recorder with phantom and off u go,  or a hand held recorder and use your pre in front of it.   KEEP IT SIMPLE
needin some fishhead music!

" known for f**king up a good weekend on a Thursday nite "

Offline BradleyJY15

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2020, 06:01:34 PM »
I just replaced my whole rig this winter, except the mic stand.

For around $3,700, I bought all new:

MixPre-6ii
Schoeps MK22 Caps
Cables
Shock Mounts
Wind Screens
SD Cards
Power Supply
And tons of other accessories

Good luck, have fun.
Schoeps MK22 -> Nbob Actives -> Naiant PFA -> SD MixPre-6ii

Online heathen

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Re: might start taping again. 4 mics -> Wendt X4 -> Apogee AD -> DAT?
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2020, 06:20:47 PM »
I just replaced my whole rig this winter, except the mic stand.

For around $3,700, I bought all new:

MixPre-6ii
Schoeps MK22 Caps
Cables
Shock Mounts
Wind Screens
SD Cards
Power Supply
And tons of other accessories

Good luck, have fun.

Sweet rig.  Unless something breaks or there's some huge leap forward in technology, there's no upgrading needed.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

 

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