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Author Topic: The AKG Active Project - 2  (Read 63923 times)

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Offline OFOTD

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2007, 06:13:52 PM »
Thanks for contributing Todd!  +T

As you can all see there is no simple solution here.  Truly.

I tend to think that many folks just "want it done" and haven't thought out the whole process of things.  We had a debate about bodies or no bodies.  Well half the people wanted no bodies because they just wanted the thing.  The other half want to keep the bodies in the mix but realize that is a big hurdle.

Someone making money off of something like this is absolutely not the problem.  If John Doe can make this happen and make some money more power to him.  I think we as a collective group wanted to first see if this was even possible to do other than what  Jon had done with his JKLabs box.  I believe that Richard sure set of a firestorm because he provided some technical thoughts to add to the mix.  By spreading different aspects of this project around we had hoped to spread out the time commitment as well as the financial burden to others.


Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2007, 06:31:07 PM »
The biggest problem it seems to me is finding someone with the time to see this thing through and having knowledge is the one of the keys to that.

EXACTLY.  The reason we don't have JK labs around and a few others is because of burnout.  It is very very stressful to build these things for other people. 
Yes, that is why both of us stopped building battery boxes.  Fortunately Chris and other people have taken up the slack.

Quote
And to clear up this wasn't an attack on you or anything, I love open source things as much as anyone, I just think that this is such a huge undertaking that without a profit motive it will get lost in the frey.

As far as the open source project, the hardest part has been done!  Richard had success with his setup, detailed in the schematic.  Now all you all need to do is figure out how to get a center contact pin and the FET inside a collette.  Also possibly research a way to get 60v powering without a brick of 9v's.  The hardest part (electronically) has been done.  Now someone with a watchmakers hand and machine shop skills can take it and run with it. 

I've said before, and I'll say again.  There is room for both DIY and for-profit in this forum.  Everyone knows how to make battery boxes and preamps, but Chris is still making a good business selling them (for a great price).  I'm hoping the same happens for any other mods.

Oh yeah, about the sound.  Has anyone heard my CK91/93 "actives"?  I think they sound pretty good, and I have no reason to believe the AKG will be different.  I think the sound, if any, might be coming from any preamps in the N/JKboxes.  If the box is just a power supply for the mics, that would be simplest, cheapest, and most likely preserve whatever sound the capsules have.

OK, I'm hoping Chris or someone else gets something.  Maybe they will even give me a discount if they use any of my info.  A little "profit" motive for myself :).

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2007, 07:12:46 PM »
Oh yeah, about the sound.  Has anyone heard my CK91/93 "actives"?  I think they sound pretty good, and I have no reason to believe the AKG will be different.  I think the sound, if any, might be coming from any preamps in the N/JKboxes.  If the box is just a power supply for the mics, that would be simplest, cheapest, and most likely preserve whatever sound the capsules have.


I think any differences whatsoever in the electronics changes the sound to some extent.  Thus you have Neumann saying the km140 and the km184 are the same and yet people find a sound difference between them (I know I did, and I ran km184>v3 in parallel with km140>v3 to test it for myself).

I think the difference is inherent to changing the electronics around, not just the preamps.  I specifically got the jklabs ECMS system that incorporates no preamp (that I'm aware of) rather than the jklabs DVC system that incorporates a preamp, since I didn't want to change the sound of my 480/ck61>V3 setup.  Yet the ECMS/ck61 sound was noticeably different than the 480/ck61 sound (though subtle), even with no preamp built into the ECMS system.
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Offline Chris K

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2007, 10:24:05 PM »

On the development:  It seems like with the information that has already been shared, the general schematic for the electronics is known.  What seems to be needed is working on the mechanics, colletts, integration, testing.

todd hit it on the head with the statement above. the development of the collettes at this point is a major factor in the delay on our part. the electronics are known. mechanics and integration are the hurdles  :-\

as i posted in the original thread, we are working on the collettes. its not as easy as simply screwing the cap to the collette threads. there is that darn center pin on the capsule to contend with, and let me tell you that darn center pin is a harder challenge that first anticipated. then there is the overall depth to make sure all the components and wiring fits and seats into the collette properly. then there is the matching of the collette "neck" so that it matches and is compatible with schoeps clips and bars (which was the easiest to tackle). etc. etc. but, on a bright side, the list is getting shorter  :)

keep in mind, every time there is a design change and we need a few new collettes to be run off, it costs money and not to mention the time of the machinist who at this point is basically doing us a favor. compound that with our full time "non-taping&recording" jobs, our families (including young children), and our propensity to actually see live shows in our limited remaining free time and maybe you will realize it is not an overnite endeavor.  :P

i want to see the final product as much as the next guy whether our solution or someone elses, but ask yourself...would you rather have a quality final design (ala the nbox for instance), or .....     ???

patience IS a virtue   ;D

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Offline willndmb

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2007, 12:47:06 PM »

On the development:  It seems like with the information that has already been shared, the general schematic for the electronics is known.  What seems to be needed is working on the mechanics, colletts, integration, testing.

todd hit it on the head with the statement above. the development of the collettes at this point is a major factor in the delay on our part. the electronics are known. mechanics and integration are the hurdles  :-\

as i posted in the original thread, we are working on the collettes. its not as easy as simply screwing the cap to the collette threads. there is that darn center pin on the capsule to contend with, and let me tell you that darn center pin is a harder challenge that first anticipated. then there is the overall depth to make sure all the components and wiring fits and seats into the collette properly. then there is the matching of the collette "neck" so that it matches and is compatible with schoeps clips and bars (which was the easiest to tackle). etc. etc. but, on a bright side, the list is getting shorter  :)

keep in mind, every time there is a design change and we need a few new collettes to be run off, it costs money and not to mention the time of the machinist who at this point is basically doing us a favor. compound that with our full time "non-taping&recording" jobs, our families (including young children), and our propensity to actually see live shows in our limited remaining free time and maybe you will realize it is not an overnite endeavor.  :P

i want to see the final product as much as the next guy whether our solution or someone elses, but ask yourself...would you rather have a quality final design (ala the nbox for instance), or .....     ???

patience IS a virtue   ;D


well said

i am just glad its still in the works
i wish i had the knowledge to lend a hand in it all  :-\
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
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Offline Todd R

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2007, 01:08:57 PM »
Thanks for the update, Chris.

Also, I don't know if it was mentioned in the original thread, but it would be excellent if you could design the "tail" section of the colletts so they were the exact same diameter as the tail of the schoeps active caps.  That would allow folks to use the "schoeps" kwonbars.  The diameter of the jklabs colletts were just a tiny bit smaller than schoeps, so they were a bit loose in the schoeps kwonbar -- workable, but not ideal.
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Offline johnw

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2007, 06:27:50 PM »
did someone tried to take apart the swivel joints and make these as connectors ?

I think this would be the easiest solution, but I can't figure out how the swivel comes apart and I don't want to rip up my pair unless I know I can get it re-assembled in case it doesn't work out.


Take the label off the side and it will reveal a screw.  It's just a thin metal plate with adhesive on it.

Have you done this? I would really like to see what they look like on the inside without screwing my pair up. From what you saw, would it be possible to separate the two sockets on the A61 by a wire to make an active cable?
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline TNJazz

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2007, 07:03:06 PM »
did someone tried to take apart the swivel joints and make these as connectors ?

I think this would be the easiest solution, but I can't figure out how the swivel comes apart and I don't want to rip up my pair unless I know I can get it re-assembled in case it doesn't work out.


Take the label off the side and it will reveal a screw.  It's just a thin metal plate with adhesive on it.

Have you done this? I would really like to see what they look like on the inside without screwing my pair up. From what you saw, would it be possible to separate the two sockets on the A61 by a wire to make an active cable?

I have, but it doesn't really show you anything.  You'd have to take the whole swivel apart and even then, there's no telling what's inside the swivel joint itself.  I had an A51 where the metal decal label fell off, that's how I know that.  I didn't take it apart completely though.
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Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2007, 07:31:40 PM »
did someone tried to take apart the swivel joints and make these as connectors ?

I think this would be the easiest solution, but I can't figure out how the swivel comes apart and I don't want to rip up my pair unless I know I can get it re-assembled in case it doesn't work out.


Take the label off the side and it will reveal a screw.  It's just a thin metal plate with adhesive on it.

Have you done this? I would really like to see what they look like on the inside without screwing my pair up. From what you saw, would it be possible to separate the two sockets on the A61 by a wire to make an active cable?

I have, but it doesn't really show you anything.  You'd have to take the whole swivel apart and even then, there's no telling what's inside the swivel joint itself.  I had an A51 where the metal decal label fell off, that's how I know that.  I didn't take it apart completely though.

I doubt there is anything inside the swivel joint.  It is short enough to go through to the FET in the mic body.

However, the swivel might be useful as a way to join the capsules to some homebrew active circuit.

Well, I'm back in the game (I think).  I've finally decided that the CK91 (blueline caps) are not good enough.  My ears just got more expensive, lol.  So I guess I got to start working on CK6x actives again.  My plan is to just hardwire the capsule though.  I'll report back if anything works...

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline johnw

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2007, 08:03:09 PM »
did someone tried to take apart the swivel joints and make these as connectors ?

I think this would be the easiest solution, but I can't figure out how the swivel comes apart and I don't want to rip up my pair unless I know I can get it re-assembled in case it doesn't work out.


Take the label off the side and it will reveal a screw.  It's just a thin metal plate with adhesive on it.

Have you done this? I would really like to see what they look like on the inside without screwing my pair up. From what you saw, would it be possible to separate the two sockets on the A61 by a wire to make an active cable?

I have, but it doesn't really show you anything.  You'd have to take the whole swivel apart and even then, there's no telling what's inside the swivel joint itself.  I had an A51 where the metal decal label fell off, that's how I know that.  I didn't take it apart completely though.

I doubt there is anything inside the swivel joint.  It is short enough to go through to the FET in the mic body.

However, the swivel might be useful as a way to join the capsules to some homebrew active circuit.

Well, I'm back in the game (I think).  I've finally decided that the CK91 (blueline caps) are not good enough.  My ears just got more expensive, lol.  So I guess I got to start working on CK6x actives again.  My plan is to just hardwire the capsule though.  I'll report back if anything works...

  Richard


So you think no electronics built into the A61 because of the short distance? What about this:

This would actually be ideal to mod into active connectors, but unfortunately there isn't a service document on the AKG site for this (or the A61 or VR62). But yeah, I want to take apart the A61 and use the connectors to make active cables. They are just too expensive to sacrifice for a project nobody seems to think would work (including AKG). Rambling...
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Offline terrapinj

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2007, 09:03:26 PM »
But yeah, I want to take apart the A61 and use the connectors to make active cables. They are just too expensive to sacrifice for a project nobody seems to think would work (including AKG). Rambling...

i would be down to throw down $10-15 towards the one for sale in the yardsale if we had someone willing to/capable of  taking it apart and trying to add a cable as long is the knowledge is shared, if the project is indeed feasible (poorlyconditioned?)
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Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #71 on: March 20, 2007, 09:13:45 PM »
But yeah, I want to take apart the A61 and use the connectors to make active cables. They are just too expensive to sacrifice for a project nobody seems to think would work (including AKG). Rambling...

i would be down to throw down $10-15 towards the one for sale in the yardsale if we had someone willing to/capable of  taking it apart and trying to add a cable as long is the knowledge is shared, if the project is indeed feasible (poorlyconditioned?)

I'll attempt mods (but with no promises, either on gear recovery or success) if anyone wants to send me stuff!  PM if you're willing.

I just don't want to get in any deeper (financially) than I am now.  I've already bought two CK63 caps which have not (yet) been out taping!

Before this though, I would ask on the AKG tech-support forum if anyone has tech docs for the swivel, or better yet, that gooseneck thing.  I have received extra docs from Karl @ AKG support (pinouts for the CK91 that I used for my actives), so it doesn't hurt to ask first.

  Richard
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 09:15:58 PM by poorlyconditioned »
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
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Offline johnw

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2007, 09:20:19 AM »
But yeah, I want to take apart the A61 and use the connectors to make active cables. They are just too expensive to sacrifice for a project nobody seems to think would work (including AKG). Rambling...

i would be down to throw down $10-15 towards the one for sale in the yardsale if we had someone willing to/capable of  taking it apart and trying to add a cable as long is the knowledge is shared, if the project is indeed feasible (poorlyconditioned?)

same here - just need about 10 more people to chip in. I'll post something on the support forum.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline willndmb

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2007, 12:03:21 PM »
again, i am not much help
but i think this new idea has promise
the extension arm seems like it is basically an "active" cable separating the bodies from the caps just like people are trying to do
now someone with cable skills could prob make whatever lenght was needed in between

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Offline johnw

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Re: The AKG Active Project - 2
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2007, 12:07:00 PM »
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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