Topic: SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE

[dmonterisi]

Can you ask Sound Devices about the 2 gig limit and how (if?) they expect to get around it?

yep, please do...most important unanswered question about these things.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

marc,

whats the chance that you can get SD to publish samples?  

If this thing is really in beta, they must have plenty of captures already.  I'd be interested in hearing samples at the different rates 96/24, 48/24, and 48/16.  Thats way more important than any published specs.  I think that they could remove alot of questions/concerns by releasing some samples.

[Marc Nutter]

Hi All,

Sound Devices has their own FAQ now as well.

I haven't had a chance to compare but here it is:

http://www.sounddevices.com/tech/7-faq.htm

Regarding samples, as soon as our demo units arrive, scheduled for mid-late May, we'll start making samples and distribute them rapidly.  

As many of you know, I love making comparison recordings so there will be sample rate, pre-amp, and a/d comps made ASAP.

Marc

[Tenn Man]

Marc,

Here's another question. Is the battery removable so that you could have a spare battery already charged up and then attach it when the first one runs down?

Or is it attached permanently?

Thanks

[wboswell]

Taking a look at the two sites, it appears that Sound Devices liked what Sonic Sense posted...  they pretty much copied SS verbatim!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Regarding samples, as soon as our demo units arrive, scheduled for mid-late May, we'll start making samples and distribute them rapidly.  

Marc

It would be nice if SD would release some samples early.  I have an order in, but I'd like to be sure of what I'm getting while I still have some chance to reconsider.  If I had built something that I thought to be as good as the V3, I'd be sending out samples like AOL discs.

So if you are getting a demo unit in late May, how far behind that will the customer units ship?  Is it assured that the units will be in our hands before Bonneroo?  I'd rather not be making my first dry run in the RV.

michael

[dmonterisi]

Taking a look at the two sites, it appears that Sound Devices liked what Sonic Sense posted...  they pretty much copied SS verbatim!

:rotflmao:

+t

[nic]

-from sound devices faq-

How do you handle the 2 GB file size limit that is often associated with .wav files? Will the file system break a recording seamlessly at a given file size and start a new one without any operator
intervention?

    There are couple of things here. First, a WAV file on its own does not have a finite size limit, it is the volume that contains it which limits its size. In older FAT (and FAT16) environments the largest single volume (and file) was 2 GB (remember the fun when installing a large drive with Window 95 and having multiple partitions?).

    The 744T and 722 recorders data volumes are formatted and write to FAT32 file structures. This formatting allows the drive to directly mount in a wide variety of computer platforms, including Windows, Mac OS, and Linux. Via the FireWire connection both internal drives (internal HD and CF) appear as external FAT32 volumes. The 7-Series recorders can format volumes up to the 2 TB. (NOTE: Windows XP and W2K have a limitation on FAT32 drive formatting - XP can format a FAT32 volume to a maximum of 32 GB, although it can read FAT32 volumes as large as 2 TB.)***

    FAT32 formatting has a maximum single file size limitation of 4 GB. While that means that you could have thousands of files on the drive, the largest any one file can be is 4 GB. The 744T and 722 recorders will automatically split an audio file before the 4 GB size is reached and begin writing to a new file. When joined in an editing program these files match seamlessly with no samples lost. This is similar to an Audio CD which has multiple tracks on its volume. The 744T and 722 have menu-selectable file size maximums of 650 MB, 1 GB, 2 GB, and 4 GB. The 650 MB size allows the user to break a single, long form audio program into multiple CD-R sized files for backup to inexpensive CD-R medium.



***my note, XP has the limitation, not Win2000

[sickrick43]

(NOTE: Windows XP and W2K have a limitation on FAT32 drive formatting - XP can format a FAT32 volume to a maximum of 32 GB, although it can read FAT32 volumes as large as 2 TB.)***



***my note, XP has the limitation, not Win2000

This is on the install & subsequent format of FAT32 volumes.  I install alot of XP boxes with 40GB drives.  For the generic workstation install, NTFS is unnecessary.  What I do is, BEFORE I boot the WinXP install disc, I boot up on a Win98 Boot Diskette and fdisk/format the large volume as FAT32.  Then you boot the XP install disc, and tell it to use the current volume, instead of converting to NTFS or reformatting NTFS.  You get to have FAT32 & XP on whatever size volume you like - AND if the XP crashes, you can still get access to the disc by booting a DOS startup disc.

But nonetheless, even if the disc in the SD WAS NTFS, you will still be up against the WAV/BWF maxfilesize limitation.

Rick

[scb]

>>First, a WAV file on its own does not have a finite size limit, it is the volume that contains it which limits its size. <<


I don't really agree with that

[nic]

rick, they could have used W64 or SDII extended as their file format. neither of these has the 2/4gb barrier that .WAV has

not sure why these companies use FAT32. they still have to license that from Microsoft..NTFS is more stable and less prone to fragmentation and corruption.

before anyone says that only NT, Win2000 and XP can recognize NTFS, this is ONLY true if you are physically taking the drive out of the 7xx unit and plugging it directly into a IDE channel on the computer.
if SD were to license NTFS, they would have a small firmware chip which would have the driver info so that any computer the 7xx unit was plugged into via firewire would recognize and it and be able to read from it, just like a Win98 or *nix or Mac that is networked with a NT, Win2000 or XP machine can access/read a NTFS drive/share

[nic]

>>First, a WAV file on its own does not have a finite size limit, it is the volume that contains it which limits its size. <<


I don't really agree with that

yeah, I was wondering about that too.
try to create/record a +2gb .WAV file on a ntfs, ext2/3 or hpfs file system and you will still have problems

[scb]

right there in the broadcast wave specification:

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:UMt2RxJgPbEJ:www.ebu.ch/departments/technical/tech/tech_32/tech_t3285_s4.pdf+WAV+format+2+gigabyte&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

4 gig limit, though in practice 2gb, perhaps due to signed vs unsigned ints?

[scb]

also, NTFS drives *can* be read on the newer versions of mac os x.  it ain't just windows.  but anyway, yeah, fat32 is probably just easier for them to do cross platform compatibility (since it's still not supported on older macs and other systems)

[sickrick43]

I have yet to see a device that interfaces with a computer (digital cameras, etc.) that does more than FAT32.  Most camera manufacturers as recent as a year ago, made a big deal about "now FAT32 compatible".  I don't think this has to be "licensed" per se', but is the easiest to work with, and utilize larger than 2GB volumes.  Keep in mind that most removable media (Cardbus, Compact Flash, etc.) has only recently broken the 2GB barrier anyway.

rick, they could have used W64 or SDII extended as their file format. neither of these has the 2/4gb barrier that .WAV has.

But the fact is, that they did not, for whatever reason, so it's a moot point really.  This really shouldn't be an issue, if it will start a new file without losses.  But it IS a shortcoming that all the non-linear recorders are suffering from right now.  Even if they DID use w64/SDII they would still be up against the FAT32 limitations.  So whether is the SD7X, Fostex, or whatever else is coming in the immediate future - we're gonna be stuck with it...

"With documentary and ENG mixing engineers in mind, we kept the recorders as small as practical without compromising their useability." - (from SD's website) shows that WE aren't the market they're going for anyway.  

Remember - WE ARE ALWAYS the "incidental" market.  But then again, we ARE an adaptive bunch of people.

Rick