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Author Topic: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)  (Read 89202 times)

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Offline justink

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #240 on: August 01, 2014, 09:52:07 PM »
I thought as discussed in earlier threads that the word clock will not sync using the "sync" cables (only control is sync'd)
- and verified by Roland support/engineering

Although some people have seen near perfect alignment when running 2 decks others have seen significant drift between 2 decks

To get around this limitation you need to run a spdif cable from out on master deck to in on slave and set slave's clock to sync to ext as noted above


This is in addition to the 1/8" TRS "SYNC" cable

okay, so you need to run BOTH?
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Offline H₂O

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #241 on: August 01, 2014, 09:56:39 PM »
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Offline capnhook

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #242 on: August 02, 2014, 07:11:49 AM »
okay, so you need to run BOTH?


no


but go ahead and use both if it makes you feel better.


have fun and please let us know your findings.
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod [NAK CM-300 (CP-3) and/or (CP-1)]->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
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Offline jb63

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #243 on: August 02, 2014, 10:23:26 AM »
So a simple coax cable from the digi out to the digi in (both right next to the ctrl sync plug)  and you can get the clocks to sync?

Am I reading that right?
this is definitely not normal

Offline justink

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #244 on: August 02, 2014, 10:34:44 AM »
if you run a coax from one to the other... aren't you just using the same channels?  so, you can't really record 8 channels...

this is confusing.
Mics:
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Earthworks TC25 (omnis) 

Pres and a/d's:
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bm2p+ Edirol UA-5 (FOR SALE - Make Offer)

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Oade CM Edirol R-44
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline H₂O

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #245 on: August 02, 2014, 02:24:41 PM »
What I know from reading these threads is that the clock can only sync via the spdif - the sync cable only sync'd control meaning if you run more than 1 r-44 you and connect only via sync cable you risk having recordings with drift issues that have to be fixed in post

Some people including capnhook claim to have not run into this issue others have run into significant drift issues requiring a lot of alignment work in post

Depending how matched the clocks between the two units are will determine how much of a drift issue you may encounter

You may want to set this up a head of time and run you're 2 r-44's together for 3-4 hours and see how managable the drift is

You can also test using an external clock as the other poster mentions - they suggest it's possible to sync via spdif to ext without eating 2 channels
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #246 on: August 02, 2014, 02:35:27 PM »
You can also test using an external clock as the other poster mentions - they suggest it's possible to sync via spdif to ext without eating 2 channels

There is a way to do this and get the full 8 channels to use, but I can't recall exactly how we did it using a USBPre2.  It's been awhile.  Paging acidjack...

Offline macdaddy

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #247 on: August 02, 2014, 03:15:07 PM »
You set the clock and the recording sources seperately, so you would set the clock to external, and the recording source to analog...
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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #248 on: August 02, 2014, 04:13:15 PM »
What I know for sure:
The 1/8" TRS links the transport controls (and for some users may sync clocks.. or not).
The SPDIF connection can sync clocks.

As I recall:
Syncing clocks using a direct SPDIF connection between two R44s requires duplicating those two SPDIF channels on both machines.  So you get 6 separate channels, 2 of these duplicated across the two machines.  I might be wrong in that, it would be better if you could use it to only sync clocks, but that's the way I remember it working.

Getting all 8 channels while syncing clocks via SPDIF requires using a third device like the USBPre2 which is able to replace the audio data in the SPDIF stream coming from the R44 serving as the master clock with its own audio data from it's preamp inputs, while retaining the clock data from the master R44.  You can then record using all four built-in preamps on the Master R44, and the two USBPre2 channels plus two built-in preamp channels on the clock-slaved R44.
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Offline justink

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #249 on: August 02, 2014, 06:05:18 PM »
What I know for sure:
The 1/8" TRS links the transport controls (and for some users may sync clocks.. or not).
The SPDIF connection can sync clocks.

As I recall:
Syncing clocks using a direct SPDIF connection between two R44s requires duplicating those two SPDIF channels on both machines.  So you get 6 separate channels, 2 of these duplicated across the two machines.  I might be wrong in that, it would be better if you could use it to only sync clocks, but that's the way I remember it working.

Getting all 8 channels while syncing clocks via SPDIF requires using a third device like the USBPre2 which is able to replace the audio data in the SPDIF stream coming from the R44 serving as the master clock with its own audio data from it's preamp inputs, while retaining the clock data from the master R44.  You can then record using all four built-in preamps on the Master R44, and the two USBPre2 channels plus two built-in preamp channels on the clock-slaved R44.

this is just me thinking it through, no actual practice in the matter.

but if you use digi out from deck one, you would be sending a four channel mix to channels one and two of deck two.  from there, that four channel mix will be clock sync'd with channels three and four on deck two (because you're using one deck, obviously). 

so, it would be an on the fly four channel mix on channels one and two of deck two, plus channel three (actually five) and channel four (actually six).

sound right?
Mics:
DPA 4028 (wide cards)
DPA 4023 (cards)
Earthworks TC25 (omnis) 

Pres and a/d's:
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Oade CM Edirol R-44
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline capnhook

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #250 on: August 02, 2014, 07:26:11 PM »
You guys could complicate a tomato sandwich... :banging head:

There is no way to set any r-44 clocks to external OR internal.  No need for any stinkin' digi cables.

Use the 1/8 TRS male-male sync cable only.  It works for me 100% of the time.

Please report your findings here.

It is possible that a certain range of s/n's will sync, and others will not.

Let's get some data, fellas.
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"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #251 on: August 02, 2014, 09:53:14 PM »
if you use digi out from deck one, you would be sending a four channel mix to channels one and two of deck two.

Only if that's what you choose to send.

SPDIF output is a duplicate of whatever you route to the headphone out. Cycle through these choices by pressing the headphone level knob: 
1) nothing
2) any individual channel in mono (1,2,3,4>L/R)
3) all 4 summed to mono (1+2+3+4>L/R)
4) 1>L / 2>R
5) 3>L / 4>R
6) 1+3>L / 2+4>R

(Don't push the knob while recording, if you do you'll immediately switch what is routed to the SPDIF out)


There is no way to set any r-44 clocks to external OR internal.

There is, but there is no menu switch.  The R-44 automatically senses the clock rate of an incoming SPDIF stream.  If that SPDIF stream does not match the clock rate the R-44 is set to in the record menu, the sampling rate indicator on the R-44 display will blink, indicating that the clock-sync is not locked.

The sampling rate indicator on the display will either be steadily illuminated, indicating one of these two conditions..
1) no SPDIF input, using the internal clock
- OR -
2) sync established to the SPDIF input (only possible when the R44 record/menu selection has been set to the same clock rate)

Or it will blink, indicating that it senses an external SPDIF stream but is not locked to it for whatever reason and is using the internal clock.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline H₂O

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #252 on: August 02, 2014, 11:58:41 PM »
Acid jack or some of the other NYC tapers could never get the clocks to sync using the sync cable they called Roland support and Roland support told them no clock is sent over the sync cable - the only way they could ever get the clocks to sync was some convoluted way using a sd usbpre2

This is all already well documented some where in this same thread

As most of us all ready know the cap'n is pretty stubborn so take what he says with a grain of salt
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Offline capnhook

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #253 on: August 03, 2014, 09:44:38 AM »
I'm salt-water and fresh-water, H2O... ;D

Have fun, happy taping y'all!
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod [NAK CM-300 (CP-3) and/or (CP-1)]->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

Offline jb63

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #254 on: August 07, 2014, 09:13:19 PM »
Well, I wasn't able to get the sync thing going but pulled the analog and digital in without a hitch. I'm going to experiment this weekend with 2 decks and try to sync them using both possible scenarios.
this is definitely not normal

 

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